Introduction

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Only a few days ago, everything seemed perfect in the best of all possible worlds for Nvidia. The card manufacturer had just launched its GeForce GTX 260 and 280, which – despite the six-month delay – pushed the unified architecture introduced with the GeForce 8 to the limits of what a 65-nm process and a gigantic number of transistors could offer. The performance gain compared to the former –and now older – generation wasn’t overwhelming (59% on average over a 9800 GTX), but the arrival of CUDA applications was an interesting development, and Nvidia had no competition. Meanwhile, AMD seemed to be ever deeper in the red with its graphics division, avowedly incapable of competing on the high-end market segment as it once did, with its existing high-end cards quickly aging performance-wise. Then came the hush-hush release of the Radeon HD 4850, even before anybody had time to test it, and at an astoundingly low price of $199.

Radeon HD 4870

Yet, in the AMD camp, a miracle has happened. The Radeon HD 4850’s performance surprised everybody – including Nvidia. Despite the last-minute launch of the GeForce 9800 GTX+, which will not be available in retail channels until mid-July, Nvidia simply can’t match the explosive performance/price ratio of the Radeon card as we demonstrated in our recent test. The familiar marketing pitch about optimizing efficiency and the architecture’s yield, which has always sounded like fluff, suddenly took on a new meaning considering the Radeon HD 4850’s test results. It also even awakened hopes of an even better performance in the future. Having managed — to its own surprise — to increase the number of multiprocessors from 320 to 800 despite a 43% increase in the number of transistors and at the same engraving depth, AMD doesn’t want to settle for playing in the minors – and for good reason. A Radeon HD 4870, based on the same architecture but with higher performance (and of course at a higher price) has been announced and is slowly beginning to be available, though there’s still some uncertainty about that last point. On paper, at least, it could directly compete with Nvidia’s new high-end cards, and at a significantly lower price. But how about in practice?


Talkback
Erinshaw 03/07/2008 08:06
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Erinshaw
Seems like this is going to be my new graphics card :)
marcbt 03/07/2008 09:45
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marcbt
Im currently running 2x 3870s in crossfire - would it be better performance (and power)wise to buy a 4870 and run that instead?
j5surferdude 03/07/2008 11:37
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j5surferdude
I got two of these in crossfire and even with a Q6600 cpu unclocked it makes Crysis fly. Fans are suprisingly quite but Temps are Hot. The back of my PC is almost too hot to touch! Had no problems running any games so far drivers seem quite stable.
leexgx 03/07/2008 11:40
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leexgx
an single 4870 is about 2 times more powerfull then your 3870 in CF mode you be able to now use AA as well as thay fixed the AA (thay put Hardware back in there so it can do aa now and very well)

the card seems to beat the 260 alot of the time and thats only one card get 2x 4870 in CF and when CF is working you out do an gtx 280 for the same as 2x4870 in CF (basicly same price)

the 2x and 3x ATI cards was not so good
jackbnimble007 04/07/2008 12:49
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jackbnimble007
This is an amazing card. As an avid Nvidia fan, I never thought I'd say that. And yet, here I sit with a smile on my face, content in the knowledge that I am now about to upgrade my ancient 6600GT to the ATI HD4870 which kicks the GTX260's ass at a much better price. In fact I couldn't care if Nvidia made the 260 cheaper, I'd still go out and support ATI for having the balls to make such a good card at such a good price. At the end of the day, a price war is fantastic for the consumer, and in order to keep that up, we gotta support ATI for this round...
jackbnimble007 04/07/2008 01:01
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jackbnimble007
Guess what chaps... Nvidia has decided to drop their prices for the GTX 280 by $90 and the 260 by $30, due to the sheer dominance of the HD4870! Check out the link: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/a [...] ,5818.html

Basically the GTX 280 is set end up costing about $559 and the GTX 260 about $359 after the price cuts...

And even after hearing that news, which clearly demonstrates the power of competition, I'm still getting myself a 4870 (perhaps even the 1GB version)... Suck on that Nvidia.
americanbrian 04/07/2008 09:57
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americanbrian
Isn't unreal 3 cuda optimised to run the physics through the GPU, hence leaving the CPU free to help boost the framerates.

I think it is unfair to use a game as a benchmark that has been clearly optimised in this way.

On the other hand if that is the road developers are going to go down then AMD should pull their finger out and get their physics acceleration stuff out.
mi1ez 04/07/2008 10:25
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mi1ez
I'll be getting the 1GB version as soon as I come back from my holiday!
mi1ez 04/07/2008 10:28
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mi1ez
americanbrian :
Isn't unreal 3 cuda optimised to run the physics through the GPU, hence leaving the CPU free to help boost the framerates. I think it is unfair to use a game as a benchmark that has been clearly optimised in this way. On the other hand if that is the road developers are going to go down then AMD should pull their finger out and get their physics acceleration stuff out.


The CPU won't give much of a boost to framerates as such, but having the physics somewhere quicker than the CPU will generally help the system as a whole.
Anonymous 05/07/2008 11:49
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Note about memory transfer frequency vs bus width.

Don't forget that power consumption increase with frequency is quadratic, which is not the case with bus widening. The main problems really are
1) technical: routing complexity not only on the PCB (as said in the article) but also on the die,
2) financial: pad buffers take a lot of silicon area, which increases the cost and reduces the yield.
jackbnimble007 05/07/2008 11:30
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jackbnimble007
Hi guys, need a little advice...

I'm keen to get the ASUS EAH4870/G/HDMI/512MB but was wondering about the 1GB version that's supposed to be coming out in August. Do you think there will be a major difference in speed if I'm using a 19" wide or 22" wide screen, between the 512MB version and the 1GB version?

If not, I think I'll just get the 512...

Thanks!
djcoolmasterx 06/07/2008 02:39
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djcoolmasterx
Can't wait for the 4870X2 :D
Solitaire 06/07/2008 03:54
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Solitaire
Sooo depressed now... bought a HD3850 six months ago to replace MY 6600GT, and now jackbnimble is making me very jealous... should have waited!

And AFAIK there's a lot of politics and licensing behind the CUDA/physics angle... Intel has Havok and nVidia has Ageia, AMD has the hardware but no code for it :( Which is part of the reason why UE3 games (UT3, Mass Effect etc.) have such an abnormally (not anomalously) low score in comparison. BUT there is actually supposed to be a third party working on translating nVidia's Ageia stuff to AMD cards very successfully (albeit illegally) so AMD does have the hardware for it... just not the software license! >:(
leexgx 14/07/2008 03:31
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leexgx
for gaming the 38x0 cards was not worth it as you could not use AA as it killed the card due to not having any texture back enders it was all been done in the GPU core {SP} an 8800gt would of been an better buy as it would of been able the same price, starting from the 4850 well worth it (it can do 4xAA as well)

the physX think well some one has made an ATI>CUDA>physX so that it can be used on ATI hardware Nvidia are actively supporting this,ATI is not supporting it but are not stopping at as well (as its the physX driver and the CUDA thats been modified to make it work)

CUDA is Free and open as why above Nvida is actively supporting it, this should make physics move along faster in game support beening on Nvidia or ATI cards
vickytheboss 15/07/2008 11:06
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vickytheboss
The card is a great deal.......I own a 3870x2 whic is outstanding in price and quality.Hope nvidia catch up with the current dominator in graphics..... AMD for life and ATI RADEON till death.....
vickytheboss 15/07/2008 11:07
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vickytheboss
The card is a great deal.......I own a 3870x2 whic is outstanding in price and quality.Hope nvidia catch up with the current dominator in graphics..... AMD for life and ATI RADEON till death.....
Anonymous 22/07/2008 07:58
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I hope AMD didn't put these price hoping that they will sell enough to get theyr money back, what I mean is I hope that 4800 will not be a los of money for them, becouse I hope to see even better cards at better prices! Also I feel sorry for nVidia in a way, they were hard kicked in the ass!
Anonymous 30/07/2008 08:59
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HD4870 can compeate with GeForce 6600GT and 8600M.
9800 gx2 is 87% faster than HD4870.
HD4870 is same fast than HD3870.
Some tests from Apricot Optimizing GLSL;
http://www.yofrankie.org/?p=261#comments
Anonymous 30/07/2008 09:03
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Sorry wrong link in 30/07/2008 08:59
http://www.yofrankie.org/?p=258#comments

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