Gigabyte's Radeon HD 4650: Are AGP Graphics Still Good Enough? : It's Time For An Old-Fashioned Revival!
Source: Tom's Hardware UK – Keywords: radeon, 4650, agp
Categories: Graphics
It's Time For An Old-Fashioned Revival!
Ah, the Accelerated Graphics Port. I remember when AGP first arrived, touted as the PC gamer’s savior.
Prior to 1997, a PC’s graphics card was limited to a measly 133 MB/s of bandwidth. Then came the AGP slot with 266 MB/s, followed by AGP 2x with 533 MB/s, AGP 4x with 1,066 MB/s, and finally AGP 8x with 2,133 MB/s of potential bandwidth. That kind of throughput is respectable, even by today's standards.
Right out of the gate, a first-gen PCI Express (PCIe) x16 slot, with its 4,000 MB/s of bandwidth, didn’t show any appreciable gains over AGP 8x because even the fastest graphics cards didn't saturate the AGP bus. Regardless, AGP was inevitably dropped in favor of the more scalable point-to-point PCIe standard. PCIe not only offered increased throughput, but it also brought with it the ability to transfer more power to ever-hungrier graphics cards.
By PC technology standards, all of this is ancient history. So why bring it up? Ask Gigabyte, one of the few manufacturers that sought to grace the aging AGP bus with a modern graphics processor, designed to save nostalgic gamers from buying a new CPU, motherboard, and graphics subsystem in making the jump to PCIe-based platforms. Its technical designation is the Gigabyte GV-R465D2-1GI, but you’ll probably know it better by its street name, ATI's Radeon HD 4650.

This is an interesting move on Gigabyte's part, as the Radeon HD 4650 isn’t really any faster than the previous king-of-AGP, the Radeon HD 3850. In fact, the older Radeon HD 3850 is probably faster, since it sports a wide 256-bit memory bus (compared to the 4650’s 128-bit bus) and fast DDR3 memory (compared to the 4650’s DDR2 memory). Still, the Radeon HD 4650 does have a few things going for it compared to the Radeon HD 3850, such as more conservative power requirements, two times the texture units, and DirectX 10.1 compatibility.
Who Buys This Stuff?
Sounds great, but who's interested in upgrading ancient tech? Well, 57% of the participants in Valve's Steam Hardware Survey game with dual-core CPUs, while 26% use single-core machines. The most common memory capacity is 2 GB, and the majority of users with processors from AMD game on machines that have clock speeds between 2 and 2.29 GHz. Now, we don't have any specific information about the CPU models folks use, but it's a safe bet that there are a lot of people out there running older rigs.
And who wouldn't want to get more longevity out of an old box? Whether it's your primary gaming machine or just an old PC you keep in the basement, it'd sure be nice to play the newest titles on aged equipment. In fact, I can personally vouch that it's useful to have a spare PC around so a visitor can join in a rousing game of Left 4 Dead. So let's find out if this new Gigabyte GV-R465D2-1GI can breathe some life into one of the great gaming CPUs of antiquity, the Athlon 64 X2 3800+.
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Glad I seen this article, I've been looking for a card for my old dell 8300 for a couple of weeks now and think I've definately decided on the HD 3850.
Is there a way to work out what spec of processor would overcome the bottlenecking problems of a specific graphics card?
p.s. Don't have money for a new rig, so looking to spend as little as possible, so no comments on upgrading to pcie please.
if this article proves anything, its that older pc's can still cut it when it comes to gaming.. i don't play crysis or far cry 2. but my 5 year old single core amd 3000+ (754), and ati x1950pro graphic card can still handle the games of late.. it plays bioshock and Oblivion very well... but then if tech review sites and other media had my attitude then the pc industry would come to a standstill...
well done, good article, just placed a 3850 agp into a AMD 3000+ setup for my brother (Cheapest way to get a gaming system together as this was the only thing to purchase) and i must say it handles most games with zest, only newer games like Supreme commander and Far Cry do not run well on the machine ( CPU bottleneck) but i have a huge amount of brilliant 2004-2008 games that run perfectly on this system my brother is stoked, and LOTRO runs flat out max settings so perfect for his needs, and a bunch of five year old components saved fron trashing.
Really looking forward to the 2nd part of this Don!!
I currently run a 'AsRock 775i65G' with an 'Intel Core2Duo E6420' (2.13GHz 65nm) overclocked to 2.4GHz and the Front Side Bus is at 1200Mhz, along with 2GB of 'Kingston DDR Ram' (Dual Channel). The only thing I am currently looking for is to replace the AGP HD2600Pro as I can feel no bottleneck from the CPU, only the graphics card (had a AGP 1950Pro before it broke, tis was sweet).
Maybe your will to pick one up off ebay for cheap and look around the office for an old Intel 63XX or 64XX Core2Duo model to add to the tests, as it does allow for a more modern system with hopes of more CPU head room!!
So please don't forget us Intel fokes out there too!!....
Forgot Positivity!!
Maybe overclock the 3800+ x2, depending on the board's capability and chipset?
It's nice to see that AMD hasn't forgotten the AGP crowd, either, although I would have liked to see some GDDR5 memory thrown into the mix
Maybe even a Part III..which of the older chipsets and CPU combinations are best suited to overclocking? Naturally, one has to be mindful of the 'AGP and PCI lock' feature on these older boards, as the increase in speed can damage components if no such lock of available.
I wouldn't mind seeing the A64 x2, Pentium Dual-core and Core 2 put in the ring..what would give the killer blow: a slower, overlocked CPU with a more expensive card or a more modern architecture with a cheaper card? Or would it be better to simply sell the lot, and get something more modern? I did consider getting a 3800+ x 2 simply for the purpose of overclocking this S939 board (PCI-E), but these chips are like gold dust over here in the UK, and some of the prices charged on a certain auction site are ridiculous.
I did consider getting a 3800+ x 2 simply for the purpose of overclocking this S939 board (PCI-E), but these chips are like gold dust over here in the UK, and some of the prices charged on a certain auction site are ridiculous.
I had to be the "agent provoker" on this topic!! But certainly I have some experience of playing around with "older boards" (I am still using a dual-processor dual-core Opteron system - socket 940 - myself). In my experience "server" parts can get cheaper with age, "desktop" parts once no longer manufactured in quantity start to sky-rocket in price. Certainly that is my experience in the UK...
Try to get a decent skt 939 CPU such as an Opteron 185 or similar for a decent price on the Bay... DDR Ram costs a fortune. Older motherboards may have lots of bells and whistles for OC but generally use lower quality components (e.g. electrolytic capacitors, etc.)
AGP graphics cards also carry a premium over there PCIe equivalents. This holds true especially when selling second hand - nobody wants to upgrade a more modern PCIe MB to an out-of-date graphics card (given the current the Nvidia vs ATI price war). A good AGP GPU (e.g. 3850) will sell for a reasonable amount second hand.
Just my $.02...
Bob
I got the HD 4650 ;]] Clock it to the max get a better power supply and run the newest games on a 6 years old machine ! I'm playing GTA IV With no problem on HIGH !!!!!! 4650 RULEZZZZ !!!!!!