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Editor's Corner: Getting Benchmarks Right

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Table of contents
  • 1. It's All In The Numbers

In Monday's first look at AMD’s Socket AM3 interface, we observed some interesting gaming results on Intel’s Core i7 920 versus the new Phenom IIs (and subsequently got called out on them). This, of course, after overclocking both micro-architectures in a previous story and comparing their respective performances.

Of course, in that most recent piece, we used AMD Radeon HD 4870 X2 graphics cards, and in this one, we employed a pair of GeForce GTX 280s. It turns out that graphics makes all of the difference in gaming--who would have guessed?

Moreover, there were other sites that published their own evaluations of the AM3 platform, yielding a second round of comparisons.

Curious as to why, exactly, we were seeing different results from some of the other publications out there and in response to requests for more data from our readers, I dedicated the past two days to hypothesizing possible causes and re-running our gaming tests, using Far Cry 2 as my indicator of choice. A sincere thank you to the folks who posited helpful information  and constructive suggestions in comparing data.  I tried to replicate as many of the other test scenarios from Monday's round of reviews as possible here.

Without further ado let’s get into some troubleshooting, benchmarking, and hypothesizing.

Possibility #1: Benchmarking with power-saving features enabled was causing performance problems with Core i7.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
All Power-Saving Features Enabled (Numbers From The Launch)
53.23
41.83
All Power-Saving Features Disabled (New Results)
56.51
44.3


After disabling EIST (and hence turning off Turbo mode), C1E, and the thermal monitoring function that could throttle the processor if it broke past its pre-programmed 100A/130W limits, it was clear that this combination of features affected performance, but just slightly. Certainly, they weren't to blame.

Possibility #2: At DDR3-1066 (the max ratio of Intel’s engineering samples), we were starving our platform for memory bandwidth.

Far Cry2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz/DDR3-1066 and GeForce GTX 280 (Numbers From The Launch)
53.23
41.83
i7 920 @ 3.8 GHz/DDR3-1523 and GeForce GTX 280 (New Results)
60.33
46.43


Rather than simply clocking the memory bus up to 1,600 MHz by upping the Bclk, we cranked the reference setting up to 190 MHz, yielding a 3.8 GHz clock speed and 1,523 MHz memory bus. The boost helped a tad at 1920x1200 and a little less at 2560x1600, but in no way made up the difference between a Phenom II at its stock settings.  No go there, either, which is incredibly strange. Graphics bottleneck, anyone?

Possibility #3: The driver install was bad, and the GeForce GTX 280 was actually at fault.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
Original Installation (Numbers From The Launch)
53.23
41.83
Fresh Operating System/Driver Installation (New Results)
56.12
44.02


Starting clean, with a fresh copy of Vista x64 and a fresh driver installation, we started over using Nvidia’s GeForce 181.22 build—the latest available, and the one we used in our story earlier in the week. The i7 setup scored a bit higher, but still failed to pass any of the Phenom II X4s, which would have been the result we were looking for to show Core i7 in the lead here. Still, no go.

Possibility #4: Our results are only representative of gaming on an Nvidia card, and those using AMD Radeon boards will see something different.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz and GeForce GTX 280 (Numbers From The Launch)
53.23
41.83
i7 920 @ 3.8 GHz and Radeon HD 4870 X2 (New Results)
105.08
79.46


No kidding, right? Of course gaming on a Radeon is going to give you a different result—especially in a game. But we didn’t expect variance to this extreme. Suddenly, we’re on to something. The i7 920’s results shoot up to levels that truly trounce the Phenom II X4 machine armed with the GeForce GTX 280 (as it should, given the faster processor and graphics card). We'll dive into a lot more depth on this point on the next page.

Possibility #5: Ok, turn down the CPU clock, silly. You’re still running at 3.8 GHz.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz and GeForce GTX 280 (Numbers From The Launch)53.23
41.83
i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz and Radeon HD 4870 X2 (New Results)85.87
74.85


The results scale lower, most notably at 1920x1200, where we’d expect a CPU to have a more profound impact on gaming performance (versus 2560x1600, at least). But the 4870 X2 still leads the X4s and X3s by a commanding margin, even with the 920 running at its stock 2.66 GHz. And look how much more scaling there is coming from the overclocked configuration above.

Possibility #6: Web site XYZ used a different driver version. Perhaps something happened between that version and the most recent update you used.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
GeForce 181.22, Jan. 22, 2009  (Numbers From The Launch)53.23
41.83
GeForce 180.43 Beta, Oct. 24, 2008  (New Results)50.81
39.68


Stepping all the way back to October of last year, we installed Nvidia’s GeForce 180.43 package to test the difference between then and now. And, if anything, the GeForce GTX 280 only picks up performance given the more recent driver update. That’s not the problem, either.

Possibility #7: Your card is hosed.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
GeForce GTX 280 1 GB (Numbers From The Launch)53.23
41.83
GeForce GTX 280 1 GB Replacement (New Results)50.73
40.72


Fair enough, we have more than enough cards here to at least try swapping that out. We didn’t suspect the processor, memory, or motherboard of being defective—after all, the Core i7 920 at 2.66 GHz served up compelling results in all of our audio/video encoding apps. It was only the gaming scores that looked funny.

But that isn’t the issue either. A new card ranged from the same to slightly worse in Far Cry 2—certainly within a margin of error, to be sure.

Possibility #8: Maybe you guys use different settings that make more of an impact on the i7 920’s performance.

Far Cry 2
1920x1200, no AA
2650x1600, no AA
i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz, Ultra High Settings (Numbers From The Launch)53.23
41.83
i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz, High Settings (New Results)64.74
48.77


Now it feels like we’re reaching for straws. Nevertheless, we were willing to try the same Far Cry 2 batch using High settings instead of the Ultra High DirectX 10 configuration used to test initially. And again, there’s a significant increase, but it isn’t so substantial that Intel is able to usurp the fastest X4 under the load of Very High settings.

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mi1ez 11/02/2009 09:57
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Very very interesting article! Who would have thought it, hey?

ric-hall 11/02/2009 14:20
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Nice to see this site is willing to revisit anomalies(on occasion :p) and not treat all their benchmarks as canon. Seems that you can happily chose a lower cost option with single gpu set-ups and often be not too far apart in more basic 2 gpu configs.

MrSiko 11/02/2009 14:37
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Well done Chris on a very in-depth article.

You must be sick to death by now of the FarCry2 loop :D

papalarge123 11/02/2009 15:42
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well im impressed, thanks for the indepth re-visit, it clears alot upfor many people.

got to admit that they are gettin some strange readins from the GTX 280,gobsmacked on the power of the 4870x2 (seems to have some hidden power left in it.

fair playfor goin back and killing the Farcry game over and over again for our benifits.

Startled_Toad 11/02/2009 16:59
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so the i7 is just a phenon with out the fancy micro arctitecture. Cant intel make there own quad?

smyffalis 11/02/2009 17:32
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typical of you toad haha. but i have to agree with him. we should get some sli and xfire results just so we can compare them even more. the i7 seems to not work aswell as it should with a single card setup.

just adds more and more money on your i7 setup =)

Helloworld_98 11/02/2009 18:12
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i'd like to see how the 720 x3 compares as the tests before put it a bit lower than the i7 920 and p2 940 but not by an awful lot

VTOLfreak 11/02/2009 19:50
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Wow. This looks like a driver problem to me. Looks like Nvidia has some work to do. (I hope it isn't the gpu itself or Nvidia really has a problem.)

Great follow-up article. :p

duncan_from_enfield 12/02/2009 14:54
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This sounds like part of the Nvidia driver has an optimisation that works well on the Phenom II parts but not on the Core i7 parts due to the different microcode and CPU architecture. If (for example) the code caused the i7 to have more branch mispredictions then the effective speed of the i7 would be greatly reduced. It is also possible that the Nvidia driver does not recognise the i7 as a high end Intel CPU and is dropping back to a code path that works (poorly) on all CPUs.

avatar_raq 12/02/2009 14:58
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Thanks for the great article and for taking reader's feedback seriously. Keep up the good work.
I agree it is most probably a driver problem for nvidia, but I wonder is it limited to GTX 280 or it extends ti its smaller (260, 260+) and bigger (285) siblings? Any thoughts on that?
For the time being, this article says: "IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A CORE i7 PLATFORM, CHOOSE RADEON OVER GEFORCE"

Anonymous 13/02/2009 01:53
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Always thought that the Phenom quad was better deigned, just couldn't pack a punch. Seems to smell of the uprated athlons running at lower clocks all over again. No-one expected the socket A to punch above the weight with the P3's but when it came to gaming they seemed to have all the answers. Build a beter spaghetti junction and the traffic can have a 10 mile an hour speed reduction and still get home for tea a little earlier !

De Ja Vous ?

Jetinder 13/02/2009 05:27
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My motherboard is an ASUS P5KC, that motherboard can take any socket 775 cpu inc the Q6600. It can also use either DDR2 or DDR3 ram.......

I feel a Q6600 or Q9650 on that motherboard with DDR3 ram could still clock for clock beat the phenom II AM3 especially in overclocked mode.

reynod 14/02/2009 12:48
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This is the very first time I have ever seen anyone at THG take a second look ... at anything.

Well done Chris ... you just moved up to the level we expect from the likes of Anand.

Finally THG has a reviewer with a brain and a conscience.

I'll be reading all of your articles from now on.

Jetinder has a point ... it would have been nice to see a Yorky compared @ 3Ghz there in the mix.




wild9 14/02/2009 23:39
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Would this have a big impact on the results?

nVidia GTX 280 (GDDR3) .. 141.7GB/s

ATI Radeon HD 4870 x2 (GDDR5) .. 230GB/s

wild9 14/02/2009 23:47
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Chris Lond :
Always thought that the Phenom quad was better deigned, just couldn't pack a punch. Seems to smell of the uprated athlons running at lower clocks all over again. No-one expected the socket A to punch above the weight with the P3's but when it came to gaming they seemed to have all the answers. Build a beter spaghetti junction and the traffic can have a 10 mile an hour speed reduction and still get home for tea a little earlier !De Ja Vous ?



I agree. Regardless of the reasons, there's currently a niche in the market whereby a Phenom II and a suitable card, can 'run with the pack' at a much lower cost.

This was the principle reason I went with AMD years ago. Anyone remember the K6-III and a good ol' Voodoo Card running Quake II..remember how well it performed? I was hooked from the start. AMD then went onto produce the Athlon architecture and it's devastating FPU performance, followed by the A64 with it's integrated memory controller and (especially for clusters), Hyper-Transport technology. It's only been recently that the Intel architecture has caught up, and it's still expensive. It also has some embarrassing teething problems compared to previous incarnations.

I think that history does repeat itself, Chris. People just don't have the money to keep up with the Jones's (well, most of us that is), and coming first will only get you bragging rights unless you make proper use of all that power. That's why I still buy AMD or slower Intel processors, and clock them up. I'd rather have stability and platform reliability, as well as lower costs so I can spend what I save elsewhere.

wild9 16/02/2009 01:05
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Startled_Toad :
so the i7 is just a phenon with out the fancy micro architecture. Cant Intel make there own quad?



I'd say the simple answer to that question is yes - but at what cost to Intel? It's taken a long time and a significant amount of resources to come up with true monolithic architecture, complete with onboard memory controller. That would not be possible without AMD driving the technology forward.

In my mind, we now have two great products..Phenom II and i7. Which one is ultimately better depends on your wallet and your requirements. It's a whole different ball-game for server and super-computer clusters, the latter of which is dominated by AMD hardware. I would personally choose Phenom II, based on price and upgradeability. If I wanted outright core performance it would naturally lead to Intel (at the moment), but for me that's not the most important criteria and I think that once GPGPU processing takes of it will be even less important. One thing is clear: no matter how much people slag off the problems associated with Phenom..without AMD you would not be seeing i7's capable of some crunching through video data at very high speeds. I think that AMD did have a better architecture overall, which was beset by manufacturing errors that have only recently been overcome. AMD isn't alone in having those kind of problems.

lb106uk 16/02/2009 22:36
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It would be interesting to know if the test was run on vista 64 with SP1 installed or not as there seems to be an issue with SP1 affecting gpu performance.

I read an article last week showing the differences when running the cinebench GPU benchmark before and after installing SP1.

Is it possible that this could have an effect?

avatar_raq 17/02/2009 18:05
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avatar_raq :
but I wonder is it limited to GTX 280 or it extends ti its smaller (260, 260+) and bigger (285) siblings? Any thoughts on that?For the time being, this article says: "IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A CORE i7 PLATFORM, CHOOSE RADEON OVER GEFORCE"


After some digging I came across another site that found similar results when comparing GTX 260 and Radeon 4870, both coupled with intel E5200 and AMD 7750BE..See for yourself.

http://www.xcpus.com/GetDoc.aspx?doc=115&page=1

Strange, Isn't it?!! nVIDIA's GPUs are optimized for AMD's CPUs more than their own closely-priced ATI GPUs!! In fact it's odd enough how much impact the choice of CPU-GPU paring has..Is nVIDIA informed about this issue? I bet they will be very unhappy when the crowds discover that the best partner fot the ground-breaking core i7 is ATi solutions.

avatar_raq 17/02/2009 18:08
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avatar_raq 17/02/2009 18:12
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Sorry for repeating the link. Due to a web error I thought the first comment didn't make it!


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