Now We're Getting Somewhere...
Source: Tom's Hardware UK – Keywords: geforce, gtx, 280
Now We're Getting Somewhere...
So where’s the beef?
After a full day of breaking hardware down, reconfiguring software, downloading drivers, and endless loops of Far Cry 2, our results are still looking good. We ran them and re-ran them before Socket AM3 was launched, and we ran multiple iterations of them again in response to reader commentary on that story itself. AMD’s Phenom IIs are indeed running faster than the i7 920 in a number of our gaming tests where Nvidia's GeForce GTX 280 handles graphics.
| Far Cry 2 | 1920x1200, no AA | 2650x1600, no AA |
|---|---|---|
| Phenom II X4 940 and GeForce GTX 280 1 GB (Numbers From The Launch) | 63.06 | 48.09 |
| Phenom II X4 940 and Radeon HD 4870 X2 (Numbers Added) | 68.95 | 65.30 |
| Core i7 920 and GeForce GTX 280 1 GB (Numbers From The Launch) | 53.23 | 41.83 |
| Core i7 920 and Radeon HD 4870 X2 (Numbers Added) | 85.87 | 74.85 |
Surely, the most interesting benchmark results come here at the end, though. Compare the scores of the two configurations with GeForce GTX 280s (Phenom II comes out ahead) with the scores of the two Radeon HD 4870 X2-equipped setups (Core i7 920 comes out in front). There are the scores everyone was expecting.
Pinpointing The Bottleneck
Could it be, then, that at 1920x1200 and 2560x1600, today's processors are so powerful that even the once-mighty GeForce GTX 280 runs headlong into a brick wall? Is the Phenom II simply more efficient than Core i7 when there's a major graphics bottleneck being presented? In order to answer that set of questions, I again built up my X58-based Core i7 platform to test with more GPU muscle: a pair of GeForce GTX 280s in SLI. Unfortunately, I couldn't run an equivalent setup using the 790FX-based AM2 or AM3 motherboards, and we don't have any SLI-capable AM2 platforms in-house, so we'll have to be content connecting a few dots with additional testing here instead.
| Far Cry 2 | 1920x1200, no AA | 2650x1600, no AA |
|---|---|---|
| Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz with one GeForce GTX 280 (Numbers From The Launch) | 53.23 | 41.83 |
| Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz with two GeForce GTX 280s (New Results) | 86.68 | 70.80 |
Pre-testing Hypothesis: It's hard to draw parallels to our Core i7: 4-Way CrossFire, 3-Way SLI, Paradise? piece because we didn't test the Phenom X4 9950 with multiple GeForce GTX 280s there. We did test with Radeon HD 4870s, though, and noticed a curious case of reverse scaling as AMD was trying to get its optimizations in place for the game. We're hoping that a pair of GTX 280s demonstrates clear scaling here so that we're not left with a more severe issue centering on Nvidia's drivers. At least solid scaling would support the guess that an individual GTX 280 is unable to keep up with these modern processors.
Post-testing Analysis: Those numbers are much more indicative. Notice how the two GTX 280s are able to get much closer to the single Radeon HD 4870 X2 (but not beat it, strangely enough, at 2560x1600). We're just about ready to call this one a wrap. But first, a few more sets of numbers pushing resolutions and graphics settings down to see if we can accomplish the equivalent of running an AMD-based SLI platform at these more demanding benchmark options.
| Far Cry 2, High Settings | 1280x1024, no AA | 1680x1050, no AA |
|---|---|---|
| Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz with one GeForce GTX 280 (New Data) | 84.03 | 76.50 |
| Phenom II X4 940 @ 3 GHz with one GeForce GTX 280 (New Data) | 91.73 | 86.87 |
Pre-testing Hypothesis: If the hypothesis is correct, then we should see Intel's Core i7 920 assume its lead once the emphasis falls away from graphics muscle.
Post-testing Analysis: Indeed, it is not. Instead, the Phenom II maintains its advantage over Intel, even when you drop down to resolutions no gamer with this sort of hardware would really want to play at. If this is still a graphical bottleneck for the GeForce GTX 280, then our conclusion from the AM3 launch holds true, and the Phenom II really is faster in real-world gaming scenarios.
| Far Cry 2, Low Settings | 640x480, no AA | |
|---|---|---|
| Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz with one GeForce GTX 280 (New Data) | 179.01 | |
| Phenom II X4 940 @ 3 GHz with one GeForce GTX 280 (New Data) | 124.69 | |
Let's take it to an extreme, now. At 640x480 and ridiculously stupid-low settings, which make Far Cry 2 a synthetic metric for the most part, Core i7 finally takes its elusive lead. In other words, with absolutely all graphics load alleviated, the Core i7 starts replicating the sort of performance we saw in the A/V tests, handily trouncing the Phenom II.
Was it an Intel problem? An Nvidia problem? Simply Phenom II kicking ass and taking names in our gaming tests?
Our next order of business is to either pin this on Nvidia or vindicate the graphics vendor by running a single Radeon HD 4870 512 MB at 1920x1200, where we can expect it to get taxed pretty hard. We would have used a 1 GB card if there were any left around the lab. Leaving the 2560x1600 test out of this one should do the trick, though.
| Far Cry 2 | 1920x1200, no AA | |
|---|---|---|
| Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz with one Radeon HD 4870 512 MB (New Data) | 54.44 | |
| Phenom II X4 940 @ 3 GHz with one Radeon HD 4870 512 MB (New Data) | 54.59 | |
Pre-testing Hypothesis: If this is, in fact, a processor thing, the Radeons will demonstrate the same behavior as Nvidia's more powerful GeForce GTX 280, leaning in the direction of AMD's Phenom II X4 940.
Post-testing Analysis: An identical graphics bottleneck suggests that this is not the same behavior seen before. We're seeing a definite graphics-bound condition, where the GeForce GTX 280 is hitting its limit at different places depending on processor architecture. The implication is that Nvidia's drivers are not allowing the i7 to reach its full gaming potential.
Bottom Line
The bottom line here, first and foremost, is that all of the data generated and seen in the Socket AM3 launch piece was, in fact, right on the money.
The data suggests that, using an AMD Radeon-based graphics card, you'll likely see the scaling that many other sites have presented, with Intel's Core i7 besting the Phenom II right up to 2560x1600 (refer to the first chart on this page for proof there).
At 640x480--a largely synthetic measure of processor performance, the Core i7 rules the roost under the power of a GeForce GTX 280, too. But again, the graphics load here is minimal. Anything higher--even 1280x1024, another resolution you'd expect to be CPU-bound on these cutting-edge platforms--and Nvidia's card cannot translate the Core i7's microarchitecture into the same performance advantage, giving AMD's Phenom II-series chips the advantage seen in the AM3 story and in the two pages you've just read.
I want to make it a point to thank Nvidia--specifically Nick Stam--for working with me in covering every possible base as we explored where and how the GTX 280 was being affected. As soon as we get more depth from the company's driver team, I'll post an update here. But, for the time being, I hope that the testing invested here helps clarify any questions about the validity of our benchmark results in the Phenom II / Socket AM3 launch story.
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Very very interesting article! Who would have thought it, hey?
Nice to see this site is willing to revisit anomalies(on occasion
) and not treat all their benchmarks as canon. Seems that you can happily chose a lower cost option with single gpu set-ups and often be not too far apart in more basic 2 gpu configs.
Well done Chris on a very in-depth article.

You must be sick to death by now of the FarCry2 loop
well im impressed, thanks for the indepth re-visit, it clears alot upfor many people.
got to admit that they are gettin some strange readins from the GTX 280,gobsmacked on the power of the 4870x2 (seems to have some hidden power left in it.
fair playfor goin back and killing the Farcry game over and over again for our benifits.
so the i7 is just a phenon with out the fancy micro arctitecture. Cant intel make there own quad?
typical of you toad haha. but i have to agree with him. we should get some sli and xfire results just so we can compare them even more. the i7 seems to not work aswell as it should with a single card setup.
just adds more and more money on your i7 setup =)
i'd like to see how the 720 x3 compares as the tests before put it a bit lower than the i7 920 and p2 940 but not by an awful lot
Wow. This looks like a driver problem to me. Looks like Nvidia has some work to do. (I hope it isn't the gpu itself or Nvidia really has a problem.)

Great follow-up article.
This sounds like part of the Nvidia driver has an optimisation that works well on the Phenom II parts but not on the Core i7 parts due to the different microcode and CPU architecture. If (for example) the code caused the i7 to have more branch mispredictions then the effective speed of the i7 would be greatly reduced. It is also possible that the Nvidia driver does not recognise the i7 as a high end Intel CPU and is dropping back to a code path that works (poorly) on all CPUs.
Thanks for the great article and for taking reader's feedback seriously. Keep up the good work.
I agree it is most probably a driver problem for nvidia, but I wonder is it limited to GTX 280 or it extends ti its smaller (260, 260+) and bigger (285) siblings? Any thoughts on that?
For the time being, this article says: "IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A CORE i7 PLATFORM, CHOOSE RADEON OVER GEFORCE"
Always thought that the Phenom quad was better deigned, just couldn't pack a punch. Seems to smell of the uprated athlons running at lower clocks all over again. No-one expected the socket A to punch above the weight with the P3's but when it came to gaming they seemed to have all the answers. Build a beter spaghetti junction and the traffic can have a 10 mile an hour speed reduction and still get home for tea a little earlier !
De Ja Vous ?
My motherboard is an ASUS P5KC, that motherboard can take any socket 775 cpu inc the Q6600. It can also use either DDR2 or DDR3 ram.......
I feel a Q6600 or Q9650 on that motherboard with DDR3 ram could still clock for clock beat the phenom II AM3 especially in overclocked mode.
This is the very first time I have ever seen anyone at THG take a second look ... at anything.
Well done Chris ... you just moved up to the level we expect from the likes of Anand.
Finally THG has a reviewer with a brain and a conscience.
I'll be reading all of your articles from now on.
Jetinder has a point ... it would have been nice to see a Yorky compared @ 3Ghz there in the mix.
Would this have a big impact on the results?
nVidia GTX 280 (GDDR3) .. 141.7GB/s
ATI Radeon HD 4870 x2 (GDDR5) .. 230GB/s
Always thought that the Phenom quad was better deigned, just couldn't pack a punch. Seems to smell of the uprated athlons running at lower clocks all over again. No-one expected the socket A to punch above the weight with the P3's but when it came to gaming they seemed to have all the answers. Build a beter spaghetti junction and the traffic can have a 10 mile an hour speed reduction and still get home for tea a little earlier !De Ja Vous ?
I agree. Regardless of the reasons, there's currently a niche in the market whereby a Phenom II and a suitable card, can 'run with the pack' at a much lower cost.
This was the principle reason I went with AMD years ago. Anyone remember the K6-III and a good ol' Voodoo Card running Quake II..remember how well it performed? I was hooked from the start. AMD then went onto produce the Athlon architecture and it's devastating FPU performance, followed by the A64 with it's integrated memory controller and (especially for clusters), Hyper-Transport technology. It's only been recently that the Intel architecture has caught up, and it's still expensive. It also has some embarrassing teething problems compared to previous incarnations.
I think that history does repeat itself, Chris. People just don't have the money to keep up with the Jones's (well, most of us that is), and coming first will only get you bragging rights unless you make proper use of all that power. That's why I still buy AMD or slower Intel processors, and clock them up. I'd rather have stability and platform reliability, as well as lower costs so I can spend what I save elsewhere.
so the i7 is just a phenon with out the fancy micro architecture. Cant Intel make there own quad?
I'd say the simple answer to that question is yes - but at what cost to Intel? It's taken a long time and a significant amount of resources to come up with true monolithic architecture, complete with onboard memory controller. That would not be possible without AMD driving the technology forward.
In my mind, we now have two great products..Phenom II and i7. Which one is ultimately better depends on your wallet and your requirements. It's a whole different ball-game for server and super-computer clusters, the latter of which is dominated by AMD hardware. I would personally choose Phenom II, based on price and upgradeability. If I wanted outright core performance it would naturally lead to Intel (at the moment), but for me that's not the most important criteria and I think that once GPGPU processing takes of it will be even less important. One thing is clear: no matter how much people slag off the problems associated with Phenom..without AMD you would not be seeing i7's capable of some crunching through video data at very high speeds. I think that AMD did have a better architecture overall, which was beset by manufacturing errors that have only recently been overcome. AMD isn't alone in having those kind of problems.
It would be interesting to know if the test was run on vista 64 with SP1 installed or not as there seems to be an issue with SP1 affecting gpu performance.
I read an article last week showing the differences when running the cinebench GPU benchmark before and after installing SP1.
Is it possible that this could have an effect?
but I wonder is it limited to GTX 280 or it extends ti its smaller (260, 260+) and bigger (285) siblings? Any thoughts on that?For the time being, this article says: "IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A CORE i7 PLATFORM, CHOOSE RADEON OVER GEFORCE"
After some digging I came across another site that found similar results when comparing GTX 260 and Radeon 4870, both coupled with intel E5200 and AMD 7750BE..See for yourself.
http://www.xcpus.com/GetDoc.aspx?doc=115&page=1
Strange, Isn't it?!! nVIDIA's GPUs are optimized for AMD's CPUs more than their own closely-priced ATI GPUs!! In fact it's odd enough how much impact the choice of CPU-GPU paring has..Is nVIDIA informed about this issue? I bet they will be very unhappy when the crowds discover that the best partner fot the ground-breaking core i7 is ATi solutions.
Same results on another site.
http://www.xcpus.com/GetDoc.aspx?doc=115&page=1
Sorry for repeating the link. Due to a web error I thought the first comment didn't make it!