I'm done with ATI. - Page 2

Why don't you try something like ATI Tools to solve the V-Sync problem?

@ khaydin,

You dont have to have Tripple buffering enabled to use V-sync and Refresh rates are relevant when using an LCD. LCD's have to emulate.... Oh tell you what just read this.
http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_1.html
Read it all its a good detailed article that explains it all really well.

Mactronix

I also use vsync all the time. In the past I've had a radeon 9250, geforce 5500FX, geforce 6600gt, radeon 3850, radeon 4850
every single one of them have worked flawlessly for me. You could say both companies suck but in my opinion they are both extremely good.

I used to get those "drive stopped responding errors constantly with my 8800GTX. Switched to ATI and haven't had an issue since. I guess I should be done with Nvidia... err... or maybe not.

I just buy the best performing value in my price range when I am hunting for a new card, regardless of brand/OEM.

Speaking of windows 7, my 4 series have run flawlessly with the RC build.

V-sync is for noobs.

Learn2Play

No no Stranger. Its not like that see, nvidia fixes problems with everything! They even rewrite clearly game related issues and fix them too!!

All the people with nvidia issues are stupid and need to fix thier own issues or buy better games. ATI needs to fix their bugged drivers cause they are crappy, see how many people have isues on the forums, even with buggy games? I have proof cause people complain on a forum about it, but I only count the ones that 'matter'!!!

You know what else, no matter how hard I try I can't play diablo 2 at my native resolution! What is up with that? how come ATI hasn't fixed this GLARING DRIVER ISSUE, I bet Nvidia did!!

/end logic fail

I almost feel bad for being a sarcastic ass after seeing all the hard work Euphoria put into his post... Almost.

"I've come to expect rediculously broad generalizations be taken as certain fact.."

I think he was refering to the RC of win 7 being unstable (it has its issues but it runs remarkably well for a beta). Though I could certainly entertain arguments about XP being quite dated in this day and age.

Yes I was referring to you switching to Win 7 RC to resolve your issue, simply switching to a RC version with beta drivers will not resolve any issues but rather introduce more/new problems.
Also your last response shows your ignorance and maturity level. I have no reason to rant nor offend anyone here. I am quite satisfied with what I have and I just try to help those people that might be stuck somewhere and are in need of some help. I am quite aware that the crowd coming to this forum is a bit younger and inexperienced but seriously you need a major change in attitude.

From your statement here, you clearly show that you were expecting your problems to go away with installing Win 7 RC but it only got worse, and you came here to rant about it.... What did you expect.... compassion and pat on the shoulder?

Jaysus, this discussion is not going anywhere...


I'd like to announce closing this thread due to severe infestation of spotty fanboys from both sides.

When did all the fanboys start gettign debating strategies from the crazy fundies?

Who taught these folks in school that the best way to debate is to blindly disregard points of contention and just lambast each other for being intollerant (or a fanboy)..

I much prefer creative ridicule.

As an example of how pointless your joke is.. lets look at this one.

http://www.googlefight.com/index.p [...] h+no+wings

Thats right, by your logic, there are 10 times as many birds aroudn with no wings... I much prefer the hilarious examples if we are gonna joke about logial failure.

I have not had any issues with my 4890's. there for all 4890's are perfect? I had issues with my 4870's therefore all 4870s are broken? I had issues with only ASUS 4870's, and only in crossfire, therefor all 4870's but asus work fine? Logic failures are hilarious in any event

What do they teach in school these days about logic and the scientific method? No wonder people think things like creationism is viable, and nuclear power is dangerour.. sigh..

Not even gonna try to explain TDR, it seesm way over everyone's head.. Needless to say if you still have issues with it read about it and fix your computer. Don't lambast drivers for your short comings.

Again... at what point did we all get so mindlessly incompitent to throw rediculous generalizations around like undisputed fact? Perhaps I need to get out of the science field to get a true feel for how useless the general public is at pretty much everything... And yes, I'm a physicist not an english major. I know my spelling sucks...

You misspelled the last one

http://www.googlefight.com/index.p [...] pid+people

Thread temporarily opened as the infestation seems to be under control.

I'm not - contrary to Raviolissimo - a fanboy of neither ATI nor nVidia. I'm simply a consumer.

I'm done with Samsung as well: the monitor I'm using (940BF) has one annoying feature: so-called RTA. It doesn't work as it should, coses a lot of ghosting and I have to disable it manually every time I turn my PC on. Sure, I could RMA it. I never did, I am simply not going to buy anything from them again. Just recently my HDD died. Well, WesternDigital cannot count on me in the future...

Spotty fanboys are not old enough to understand the power of their wallets. And they're being led like cattle for slaughter.

you should save yourself some money and see if you can find a problem with a piece of hardware before buy it. I have a feeling you might be restricting yourself to just very rare hardware that nobody uses so you could even save yourself some time by putting every brand you've ever heard of on your never buy again list and start from there

I actually get the video driver not responding error when ever I'm gaming and I turn the knob on the back of my computer that adjust my water cooling fan speed to quickly. I could blame ati for being my gfx card, thermaltake for selling me a case with a possibly under powered psu for my rig, my water cooler for making my computer unstable when adjusting fan speed, vista for its role, mum for giving birth to me and giving me the chance to buy myself problems. As you can see it gets a little out of hand. What i do is just realize how small the problem is and avoid adjusting the fan while gaming. you may use this technique.

There's an awesome song by weird al called I"ll sue ya which is kind of related to this.

Hey does anyone remember this http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/ [...] a_drivers/

Mactronix

Clearly my intention was not clearly enough expressed. The joke was aimed at people trying to say they could prove how bad either of the companies were by a quick search of the internet. My joke was NOT trying to actually claim one was better than the other in ANY way at all, I would have used the same google fight regardless of the result, I didnt do it looking to prove one way or the other, it was just a dig at "do a quick search" posts... It was aimed at people drawing conclusions from very limited research. My apologies for not being clear enough when saying "Well 15 seconds of research gave me a clear answer on who has the most driver problems ati or nvidia. ". Clearly my own use of the English language is deficient as well.

I wouldnt know what they teach in school these days, Its been decades since I left full time education. However I was still at school when we saw on the news just how dangerous nuclear power could be over in the ukraine. Are you perhaps suggesting that nuclear power hasn't got inherent dangers manageable sure, Im not anti nuclear in the slightest, but I dont think denying that there can be elements of danger is a good way to go about managing said risks, as was proven at the time... When I was at school what we were taught was to fudge experiment results to fit expectations We were also taught to look for evidence to support our conclusions rather than look at ways to disprove our preconceived notions

Tell me something , professionally, do you always claim authority for your conclusions with minimal hard data to prove your hypothesis? Exactly how much do you know about my computer literacy, what scientific methodology did you apply to come to the conclude that ATI drivers are fine and that I am an incompetent user? Im very interested to know just how deep you dug to come to the false conclusion that ATI drivers are not the cause of any issues.

I think you are already out of the science field and strayed into my professional field, IT is my proffession, Ive been in the proffession for 15 year. And here you are slinging around insults aimed at my ability my field of specialisation. Perhaps you could illuminate me on which high points of your long and distinguished career in physics have given you so much better insight into the state of ATI's drivers? Are you perhaps one of the bods working on their physics implementation? have you published a paper on computational physics modelling?

I assume it must be something taught in educational establishments for quite some time as its not at all rare for a "scientist" to dismiss anothers work and attack their methodology because the other persons results didnt match with their preconceived notions. Often such dismissal is announced without even checking the other persons methodology, without any form of checking for repeatability and without even testing the results themselves with their self proclaimed unimpeachable methodology. A white coat and a certificate on the wall are not adequate to make someone "right"

Anyway as my methodology is under attack heres what led to my conclusions. My standard procedure when I come to fix a problem is first to look at recent changes made that may have cause the newly emerged problem, I then test the theory that this "event" is the cause by a process of elimination changeing other elements one by one to see if there is any change in the situation - identical hardwared rigs are wonderfull for testing hardware faults! When hardware swaps point towards the same cause and the problem is not fixable with the latest drivers or OS \ game updates a clean install is tried, if this still doesnt fix the issue and again a process of elimination points towards one single culprit its very easy to lay the blame on that repeatedly troublesome part.

When subsequent driver revisions are installed with no other changes taking place have major impacts on the problems being experienced it reinforces the view that the "problem" stemmed from the drivers. The test subjects were two identical hardware rigs, 5 different driver revisions. Original release version 8.6 relatively stable on the desktop with issues in some games. Regular TDR events on the desktop from versions 8.7 through to 8.9 on BOTH rigs. Sure you could blame the rigs the power supply or try to claim incompetence on my part, I do build and maintain both rigs. However oddly enough with no other changes between 8.9 and 8.10 20 minutes between regular driver issues on the desktop and stability on the desktop. Removing 8.9 and installing 8.10 cured the desktop stability issues just like that, on both rigs. (one at a time so there was even a control to check that the 20 minutes alone wasnt the fix to the problem!) So this "problem" which was not caused by poor drivers was miraculously fixed by installing new drivers. Sadly although 8.10 fixed the desktop it was still unstable in the majority of games I played. Again miraculously 8.11 miraculously fixed up my rigs and got those issues solved, again the difference between the incidents was 20 minutes and a driver revision change. When all else remains identical and you change one factor and the results change my primitive scientific education would tell me to suspect that the one factor you change is responsible for the problems. Especially when the experiment is repeatable (identical results on two different rigs).

A process of elimination is one of my most proven tools for trouble shooting Ive been using it professionally for 15 years of reallife work with very good results. My method is adequate to have kept me gainfully employed in the field all this time.

Furthermore ATI has very very testable and proven issues with opengl and has been reticent about fixing them for the last 11 months...You can blame incompetent users for many problems, I should know Ive been an IT manager for 12 years, but having been programming since 1983 I know a thing or two about buggy code as well - yes my coding takes a LOT of refining from first go to final release... Ive met a lot of user incompetence, but when a driver doesnt give the correct response to a known line of code then you can very very specifically say its down to ATI rather than a "generic bad response" within a game for which you do not have the source code.

If you want I can post the VERY long list of categorically proven ATI driver deficiencies in openGL? Its a LONG LONG list, ATI claim opengl 3.0 support, but its actually only 80% ( according to a opengl testing outfit I have not counted the number of unsupported extensions versus the total required extensions) supported making it pretty much useless That ATI's drivers are in a poor in some areas is FACT. That subsequent driver releases fixed most issues on my rigs is to my mind a fact, that ATI still have issues in their drivers is also a fact, its not a big leap to then believe that still existing problems that occur only with ATI cards and drivers are still down to a problem at their end, this isnt a known fact until it is proven one way or another. But my most pressing current issues can be solved by moving away from ATI at this point in time, these things could change at any time with a next driver release or a new piece of hardware released etc etc.

At current ATI drivers not correctly processing this :-

if (sTextureLODBiasAvailable) glTexEnvf(GL_TEXTURE_FILTER_CONTROL_EXT, GL_TEXTURE_LOD_BIAS_EXT, _lodBias);

correctly and not fixing the issue for nearly a year is reason enough to not stick with ATI whilst this problem remains. I am not so quick to dismiss the idea of ever bying ATI again as ATI are to dismiss the problem as being not a priority.

Wish I was a teenager, does that give you a clue? Look here
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] s#t1939232
or here
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] d#t1939231
Point is, its not an ATI exclusive by any means

Uggg... i thought this thread was dead.. look at all the stuff you posted that i have to read now!!! Blast it all! Give me a few minutes...

First off, I have a terrible sense of humor.. and rant far too easily. None of my statement were aimed at you.. yesterday was FULL of people bitchign about TDR events when they clearly had a hardware problem.. hense that..

As for nuclear power.. another sore spot in the news yesterday.. as a nuclear physicist the seemignly endless paranoia around it in the states is baffling. Chernoble was one of the most catastrophic human errors in history.. but it was just that, human error, there is no technology to protect against people being stupid . I mean, we dont stop producing planes becuase a couple piolets crash them, or a couple get hijacked and flown into buildings.. I could go on for ages on this.. If you are interested though.. There is no such thing as nuclear waste, that is a missunderstood concept. A nuclear reactor is also very very safe. A meltdown is almost impossible in any modern reactor. It is more likely the reactor (as far as north amarica and europe go) would fail due to meteor colission (seriuosly), and even then it woudln't be like chernoble as they simply are not constructed like the old USSR designs anymore, and never were anywhere outside of the iron curtain.

I don't know anytrhing about your computer literacy, I only intended to reply to your joke, as I enjoyed it. All the other goodies were aimed at the previous posters, though I see how i must have come off.

I'm glad you understand TDR, it is not something common around here. I understand entirely where you were coming from.. I'm not very good at focussing my statements i guess. lol. TDR has been a problem for thousands, and 99.9% of them have a hardware fault somewhere. The rest have an issue with, as I understand it, Open GL and Catalyst AI. I'm used to being laughed at when I call TDR a Vista 'feature'... It becomes tiresome to have people complaining that ATI drivers are crap because they get TDR's while running a 4870x2 on a 400W PSU... I'm sure you can agree that there are some valid reasons to dislike a driver set.. and some totally rediculous ones. My issue is with the latter.

I've never said ATI drivers are flawless, quite the contrary. But blind faith in one side or another is what I have a problem with. ATI, nvidia, creative, intel, blah blah blah, all have driver problems from time to time. History is not a particualry godo gage and neither is random person experience, which this thread was started in lieu of. I didnt mean to attack you, sorry if it seemed I did. I'm very impressed with your post though, at one point yesterday I'm sure I assumed you were one of teh many masses basing some of their claims on personal experience. I have had my share of issues with nvidia and ATI, and everyone in between. No company is perfect, and to assume either is becuase on had an issue at one time, and one didnt.. that is all i have a problem with. And none of that was evident in your post (though the ones before it, gah).

The tricky thing with IT is there realyl isnt a "sample" to base assertations on. I can't simply collect data and say, part X works. There are way too many variables. I liken it a lot to quantum cosmology. The most insignificant appearign thing can make such a profound difference given teh scale of everything.. if anything was different teh outcome woud ahve been totally alien.

Yup, I use ATI.. I don't use it because I love them, I use it beucase it is relatively cheeper and I am wiling to deal with some driver issues becuase of that. I end up with a stable system that works everything well in the end anyway. I don't ahve to worry about open GL though... so you know.. maybe if I did I would spend the extra money...

As for what I have to do professionally... It is my job to go through hundreds of thousands of sets of data to prove something that I already know. Were I to claim authority in my comunity without such evidence I woudln't have a job.

If I left anythign out let me know. I was never "defending" ati and stating they are perfect. I was pointing out the logical failure assuming the entire company is at fault because joe on the internet cant set up his computer. Perhaps I didn't get that point across well. At any rate, cheers.

Thats ati for you... i dont know why anyone would ever buy an ati card.

by all means...

im interested on how the fanboys will react.

so far this thread has been tolkien-esque in absurdity.

I don't see how my overpriced video cards are of issue . They work bettr than the crossfire 4870's i broke

As for categorically proven driver issues with open GL.. There exists such a list with every drive ever made. Im sure it would be quite lengthy for ATI, but I don't want to see a hundred angry fanboi posts... as people list every issue they ahve ever had with every drievr they ahve ever used in an attempt to one up teh other side..That would be painful...

^ nonsense

Screw the driver issue. If only ATI could get CrossfireX to work at 100%. I can't tell you the number of hours I had to spend to get 2 4870s to work in CFX on an AMD 790FX mobo. I was using that "ancient" OS, WinXP Pro, and was actually told by several members and admins on the ATI forum boards that it was a known error that CCC had issues in XP showing the secondary adapter as "linked", even though the XP has been around like forever. Other users had indicated that they did not have a similar issue in Vista. Seeing that I did not want to shell out $180 for an OS that was soon to be replaced, I had the crazy notion just like the OP, that perhaps if I installed that "unstable" "beta" Win 7 RC (which is basically an update to Vista as some would say), that CCC would show the second 4870 as "linked." I installed Win 7 RC and lo and behold, it worked!

So ATI fanboys, don't try and come up with reasons to trash the OP for doing what he did. I did the same thing, for different reasons, and it seems to have worked for me. He was simply trying to see if the OS was the problem. Keep in mind, he did say the problem originated in XP, not RC 7.

I know this won't mean anything to the ATI fanboys, but I also installed two SLI setups recently, both on an older mobo (ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe; nForce 4 chipset; 2x9800 GT) a newer mobo (Gigabyte EX-58-UD5; Intel x58; 2xGTX 295) and both were setup and ready to go in less than 10 minutes. The ATI 4870 setup took me hours/days/weeks, etc. Whether or not it was user error, things like this do not need to be dificult. If an AMD mobo, ATI video cards and PSU are all crossfire certified, and state that CFX will work in XP, then it should not take extensive research to get it to work. I have 2 ATI systems and 2 Nvidia systems, and do not consider myself a fanboy by any means. However, when consumers have an experience like mine, or the OP's, you can see why they get frustrated and consider leaving a brand.

To not take into consideration any such experience in one's next purchase would not be logical.

Also, belittling the OP is certainly not going to bring him back to ATI.