Response time confusion.

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Mahbub1

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Ok so in a monitor spec sheet it was written exactly this line.
Response time (tr+tf) = 14ms (gtg).
What does this mean.. i mean i have seen specs of other monitors.. they dont have this tr or tf thing.. so whats that and is this 14ms (with tr+tf) good.. should i go for it??
 
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JackNaylorPE

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Manufacturer's employ a staff of "creative writers" to invent advertised specs. G2G or G2G is Gray to gray, a standard means of measuring. They invent other terms as most folks don't look past the number and since these numbers are usually much larger than the real response time, the company lawyers give the creative writers the go ahead to/ use fake numbers.

tr+tf = rise time and fall time which are useful in and of themselves but not the same as response time ... you don't wanna be equating one to the other.

changes from dark to light (rise times)
from light to dark (fall times)

If ya wanna learn about this stuff, visit tftcentral.com

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_rog_swift_pg279q.htm

In "OD mode", the Asus monitor in the review has the following:

G2G (Average) response tme = 5.2 ms
Rise Time = 5.0 ms
Fall Time = 5.4 ms

Rise + Fall / 2 = Average
Rise + Fall = Total

 
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Mahbub1

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Okk so is this monitor good?? Its a benq vz2250h . I have another dell monitor with 6 ms response time.. but someone told me .. that the tr + tf when calculated the 14ms comes down to 4.8ms approx.. so i am leaning towards benq.. is this true??
 
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JackNaylorPE

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The math is in my above post.

Advertised response times and real response times are two different things.

From the above link:

Asus **claimed** Response Time = 4ms G2G

OD Mode = Off
G2G (Average) response tme = 10.3 ms
Rise Time = 12.4 ms
Fall Time = 8.1 ms

OD Mode = On
G2G (Average) response tme = 5.2 ms
Rise Time = 5.0 ms
Fall Time = 5.4 ms

OD Mode = Extreme
G2G (Average) response tme = 4.0 ms
Rise Time = 3.1 ms
Fall Time = 5.0 ms

Asus is better than most as they have a mode (Extreme) that when you test, you can actually confirm it so they can say "we meet our advertised specs". But actually using this mode results in games being unplayable because of the massive overshoot. So where they advertise 4.0, the reality is 5.0, and that is less of stretch than most manufacturers pull.


Response Time In More Detail



Response time is measured as the rise time (tR) and fall time (tF) of a pixel as it changes black > white > black. This is effectively the time it takes to change a pixel from one colour to another and the total ‘response time’ is quoted as the total of the tR + tF. Be wary of the figures manufacturers quote, as sometimes the ‘response time’ can be quoted as just the rise time, and not the total response time. This measurement of the black > white > black transition was defined as the ISO standard for response time measurements.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

In reality the response time of the pixels will vary depending on the colour change they are making. In practice, a full black > white change is not common, and instead the pixel transitions are in shades of grey, and are then passed through the colour filters. The speed of change will depend on the darkness of the transition, and traditionally (before overdrive) the transitions to lighter greys will be faster. Therefore, a manufacturers quoted response time does not necessarily mean that the speed of the pixels is the same for all the transitions. It is always a good idea to see if there are any third party measurements of response time for any given screen before considering how fast a panel really is in practice. Also take into account perceived response time measurements and comparisons between screens as we carry out in our reviews.
Click to expand...
 
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Ironsounds

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Hello... if you google the panel type AH-IPS you will get more information... IPS panel monitors are wonderful at showing accurate color but the Technology has slower response time at the moment VS Older TN panels... it depends on what your use is at this time... Gaming response or Photo/Picture/Color accurate Software needs.
 
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Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163

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It means nothing. It's closer to accurate compared to GTG, but still not accurate. Manufacturers are never ever going to list true response times of their displays. I've seen displays that peak 30 ms and don't ghost as much as one that peak 20 ms and ghosts more. I've seen 1 ms TN's ghost more than a quality 5 ms IPS. I stopped trusting those specs years ago. They're purely designed for marketing, that's it. Spending more money on a display is going to give you a higher quality panel. The panel type is irrelevant if it's cheap.
 
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spagalicious

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Jack answered this twice for you. What it comes down to is that Manufacturer claimed response times are meaningless in terms of real-world performance.

What matters most to gamers is the 'Lag' times for a particular panel. This figure is usually a combined time of response time + signal processing time. Manufacturer G2G times have little to no meaning for a modern panel, you need to focus on measured times.

A rule of thumb is, anything under 10ms of input lag (response + signal processing time) is considered 'Very Good' in terms of noticable performance.

Here is TFTCentral's chart of high-performing panels.
To help in this section we will also introduce a broader classification system for these results to help categorise each screen as one of the following levels:
Class 1) Less than 16ms / 1 frame lag at 60Hz - should be fine for gamers, even at high levels

Class 2) A lag of 16 - 32ms / One to two frames of lag at 60Hz - moderate lag but should be fine for many gamers. Caution advised for serious gaming and FPS

Class 3) A lag of more than 32ms / more than 2 frames of lag at 60Hz - Some noticeable lag in daily usage, not suitable for high end gaming
Click to expand...
lag.jpg
 
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Mahbub1

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Ok so i read somewhere if itsvtr plus tf then the value is to be divided by 2.. so 7 or 8 ms approx.. and as u have said.. now i dont trust the 14 ms tr tf bkah blah.. i am going for that only.. another dell monitor fits my budget...but thats glossy so not going.. i have windows in my room.. so takimg a reflective screen means it will reflect my screen.. so better i will get the benq one.. thats matte and non glossy
 
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JackNaylorPE

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Newer 144 Hz IPS panels w/ ULMB like those used in the Acer XB270HU and Asus PG279Q are getting very close to TN panels with respect to response time

response_13.png


The new IPS Swift model from Asus is measured at 2.9 ms and the old TN Swift was 4.0

Total Lag on the Predator is 3.0 , about 3.25 for the Asus IPS ... 4.0 for the TN model.

lag.jpg
 
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Mahbub1

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Ok so i read somewhere if itsvtr plus tf then the value is to be divided by 2.. so 7 or 8 ms approx.. and as u have said.. now i dont trust the 14 ms tr tf bkah blah.. i am going for that only.. another dell monitor fits my budget...but thats glossy so not going.. i have windows in my room.. so takimg a reflective screen means it will reflect my screen.. so better i will get the benq one.. thats matte and non glossy
 
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spagalicious

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If you are worried about response times, a 60Hz panel is not going to perform near to 120Hz+ panels. It is just not possible. Don't worry so much about response times, it is only really beneficial to high-level gamers who have gotten to the point where the lag/response times of the panels they are playing on can determine whether or not they can remain competitive.

If you would like suggestions on a monitor, please include your budget, desired resolution, display tech preference and brand preference (if you have one). That way we help you find the best monitor for your needs.
 
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JackNaylorPE

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Again, you're getting lost in semantics

Read a review.... basically, one way to go shopping for monitors, if TFTcentral didn't review it, it's probably not worth buying if you are seriously considering getting a good monitor.

http://monitors.reviewed.com/content/benq-vw2235h-review

Game mode is, judging from its name, meant to be optimized for playing computer or console games. This one is notably less pink, and employs less "hold" on pixels than the previous modes.

This BenQ is not the most ideal gaming monitor—but it could be worse.

After briefly running Portal on this BenQ, I can safely say that it's not the most ideal gaming monitor—but it could be worse, too. Colors look a little too saturated, and its response time—listed at 6ms—seems to actually be a tad slower than that. There's also a bizarre edge-blur around smaller objects when in Game mode, which emits about 260 nits of light.
Click to expand...

 
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Ironsounds

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Hello... Yes... I prefer matte screens... and Yes it's Buy'r Beware for Monitors and numbers given to them... I have been happy with Benq TN monitors and their quality in the past... It is a important purchase, everyones eye's are different, and that makes it a Tuff purchase to Buy un-seen... Typically I look at the Pixel Pitch Numbers in my choices... the smaller number here will mean a better small text display. the Benq vz2250h has a wonderful fine Pixel Pitch 0.248mm spacing for finer detail.
 
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Suzuki@1473780084@1473780163

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Definitely avoid glossy if you can't control light or desk area to prevent sun shining through. What's your budget, by the way, and where are you buying from? Ever since I found a quality VA, that basically equals an IPS' color reproduction, I no longer recommend IPS, unless viewing angles are a problem.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8H531C9471&cm_re=BenQ_EW2740L-_-0B1-00T7-00003-_-Product&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-Skimlinks-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=12087162&PID=3899435&SID=skim1402X558040X9e57b0bc58b56e0864720f2cb78beebb&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-Skimlinks

This one however is glossy. Though not all glossy panels are made equal, some remove reflections better than others. I recommend any matte glass if it's within your budget. Even if there's a better model out there, glossy panels can be really annoying.
 
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