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I'll take flash and entertainment over realism any day. I've seen quite a few real fights in my day and they all pretty much sucked. Sure it's nice to have some authenticity if a fight is set in a real-world setting, but a well-choreographed sword fight is better than two guys trying to punch each other in the groin every time. The Bourne fight and the fight in The Hunted are authentic but hardly realistic.

Ugh--what a lame list. Kung foo to it. The Bourne fight was excellent and The Hunted but the rest is lame--not realistic at all. You been watching too many video games.


So get to the war fights. Maybe something interesting will show up I have not seen.But be sure to consider We were Soldiers Once, Blackhawk Down, Siege of Firebase Gloria and Taegukgi. For the same reason the Movie fights is lame ignore 300.

We are waiting--good luck tho luck has nothing to do with it.

This thread actually pointed me to that flick so I watched it yesterday :kaola:

The Matrix was (much) better as a movie experience, but I enjoyed Equilibrium as well. Even when seeing this movie 5 years after it was released it is obvious (to me) that The Matrix brought a lot of new things to the big screen at the time, whereas Equilibrium did not.

If you start comparing these movies in the context of just shoot-outs I really don't see a lot of difference between the two (and as I said, neither of them should have been on the shoot-out list in my opinion, they should be on te action movie choreography list, with the Matrix winning easily). Mind you, I did not take into account the use of bullet time, I just try to compare the quality of the shoot-outs (sec). It may be that I'm just not all that sensitive to shoot-out aesthetics and etiquette. I will immediately admit I'm not an expert on any of this, i'm just an average movie watcher.

Rest my case I will now [/yoda]

GREAT Scene. And yes, it was authentic. No CGI or stunt doubles, if I remember the special edition DVD features correctly. I seem to recall one of the behind-the-scenes features talking about how Cruise went through extensive weapons training for the role. Normally I scoff at such training, especially when it only comes in handy in a few scenes like in Collateral. But wow, it really paid off; the alley scene was scary good and really made an impact. I mean, I really believed Cruise, as Vincent, was a stone-cold hit man with crazy reflexes. And the club scene was also fantastic. Cruise may be a little kooky, but he was a total badass in that movie.

No...no, not you, BigMac! Please no, not you too! He's turned into an Equilibrium fanboy!!!!!!!

The Matrix is far superior to Eqilibrium. It shouldn't even be up for debate. Seriously, watch these two movies back-to-back, especially the shootouts, and then try to tell me the two are comparable.

It's not too late to flee the Dark Side, BigMac. Come back to use...please....

How can you love "The Matrix" and then hate Equilibrium, in terms of shootouts? If you put "The Matrix" on 4, then Equilibrium should make the Top20.

Personally, although I liked both The Matrix and Equilibrium, I would not have included either because it's indeed more like ballet, than anything resembling a shoot-out.

I did this one earlier this year, although it wasn't specifically fist fights. Check it out: Top 10 Movie Fights

10 huh? Let's have them.

Lots of the movies that you guys are listing as omissions were in the first list. Keep in mind that Rob and I don't just throw these lists together over beers during lunch. All of the scenes considered get watched over and over and over picking them apart to see what is truly the best. We don't take these things too seriously (they're supposed to be fun after all), but we also don't throw these up lightly. Several more are in the works.

What?!?!?!?! Are you serious? You think Hard Target, Paycheck and Windtalkers are superior to The Killer, Hard Boiled and A Better Tomorrow? I'll give you Face/Off -- good stuff. And Broken Arrow and Mission Impossible 2 weren't bad, either. But I don't think many people would agree that Woo's Hollywood films are better than his Hong Kong films.

True Romance didn't make the list because, well, we never really considered it. The end is kind of overblown. Plus, I hate most Tony Scott films ("Top Gun" and "Crimson Tide" being the sole exceptions). Why can't he direct like his brother Ridley?

Die Hard is another story -- I thought about the first film's shootout between McClane and Gruber. It's a great scene, full of tension between Bruce Willis and Alan Rickman, that explodes in gunfire and broken glass. But when you think about Die Hard, the first scene that comes to mind is the helicopter/exploding rooftop jump stunt, which is arguably one of the five greatest stunt sequences of all time (another list is in order, perhaps?). Then you have great scenes like "Happy trails, Hans," the elevator bomb, and the fight between McClane and Karl. There's so much good stuff in that movie that I just wasn't sure where that shootout ranked in the best scenes of the film.

I confess I've never seen a Ringo Lam movie, but I hope to fix that soon.

As for Equilibrium, I take the blame for that omission. Travis wanted to include it, but I hated the movie and thought the stupid ballet gunfighting techniques were lame and therefore overruled him.

Some die-hard movie should have made it. I personally loved the snowmobile-empty clips scene. True Romance was a good movie, but the gunfight was people just standing up and getting shot at, nothing real creative except the pillow feathers. All you remember is almost everyone in the room dies. Honorable mention for Fifth Element(Luc Besson again) Lobby shootout with chris tucker providing comic relief was excellent.

As I was reading through the list that was my EXACT feeling. It's funny someone else felt the same way.

what's fun about reliving killing?

oh... and of course nick rivers fighting the nazi's in the underwater saloon.

Nice topic, close to the bottom line, but listen up.There are two topics which also need articles. Second in interest are war movies. Now that you have avoided them for the article here, do an article on them. There is no shortage of candidates I'm sure. Be fun to relive the killing.
First tho is an article on fistfights in movies. There is the real deal. What's better than a mano a mano fight.
I keep a list of the best fistfights in movies and best war fights. But FF are my favorite and would like to hear other opinions of fights I've missed.

Here are two at the top
Die Hard --the last fight at the end where McClean ends up wrapping the guy in chains
Undisputed II--the last fight is awesome.

Will THG consider these topics ?--be fun to read.

I know, BadDad, I'm just joshin' you.

Now on to Last Man Standing; I don't know how Travis feels about it, but I was severely disappointed in that movie. Even the shootouts were kinda bland to me. Walter Hill did much better gunfights in "Extreme Prejudice," which I actually considered for the list. Sure, the final shootout is a bit of a "Wild Bunch" knock-off, but it's still an underrated movie.

As for "Young Guns," I like the ending shootout as much as anyone can like a movie where a 5'3" Emilion Estevez is tossed out of a second story window in wooden chest and proceeds to dfey the laws of physics and miraculously avoid a major head injury and then proceed to pick apart the calvarly with two six shooters. But watch the scene again, there's a lot of weak slow motion and blurry camera work. It's good but not great.

Still smarting over The Crow, BTW...

200? Really, BadDad? Well, be my guest and fire away (pun intended). I'm not trying to call you out or anything -- I'm geuninely interested in seeing what you can come up with. I'm sure there are some movies that we've either forgotten or never seen that could make this list.


Jeverson, we considered Desperado for the second half of the list -- both the guitar case bar fight and the big showdown with El Mariachi and his bandmates (I loved the rocket launcher guitar!). But we felt the other films between 11 and 20 were better.

One that we didn't consider was The Crow. How could we forget that?!?!? Thanks for mentioning it, Colejv.

BTW, for everyone who has cited "the author" of the article, I would just like to clarify that there are actually two authors -- myself and Travis. You can see which author wrote about which shootout at the end of every entry.

In regards to "Heat". It is one of my all time favorites (personal top 10). However, I do feel that there are other films with better "shootout" scenes (see my first post). I did think this list was much better than most other's I've seen (ie: Rotten Tomatoes). It is sad that a site centered around movies doesn't even get it right... lol.

I totally agree with your decision to not include war movies. Some are more accurate than others, but many are just as sensational as their cops/robbers counterparts. Saving Private Ryan had its parts... of course the amphibious forced entry, also the scene where the team makes an impromptu assault on the AA battery gave me the willies - a slight connection with a real tactical situation - but the last half of the movie was a bit hollywood, like the tank bursting over/through a wall much in the same cinematic mechanism that would otherwise be reserved for a dinosaur in a movie like Jurassic Park.

Anyways, back to the point - not talking about war movies but serious cinema gunplay... I actually like many of the movies listed here. However, when I see gunplay used as a dramatic tool, it detracts from the experience for me. I guess it would be akin to seeing a magic show, but seeing all of the props and prep for the tricks - it takes away your ability to take in the illusion. The first two movies that I thought of before getting too deep into your article was LA Confidential and Heat. Both gave me the impression of having the opportunity to see an event, as if we were witnessing a documentary or having the perspective that only cinema can give us, to be able to be with the characters, living the plot as if it were their real life.

Other moments that I "liked" (not that I revel in bloodshed, but for one that respects life - seeing it taken, even if only on the silver screen, is a very dramatic event with impact) include Mr. Pink unloading a full clip from his semi-auto at the pursuing police as they round the bend of the building... like Val Kilmer who followed a criminal "rules of engagement", once Pink decided that he needed to apply force to effect his escape, he did it decisively. Benny Blanco from the Bronx popping a cap into Carlito - just as things are about to come together. Delivering a fatal gunshot wound to Pacino at this moment is not fair, your heart breaks for a man, who although dealt in criminal matters in the past, was trying to break free of a life that he was tragically not destined to escape from. gunfights don't have to have a build up and be long and drawn out to be effective. One moment your doing your own thing, bam, next thing your dead - can't get much more realistic than that. Of course most of the other gunfights in Carlito's Way were pretty well done. I also remember liking Sean Penn's performance in State of Grace - nothing spectacular from a technical standpoint, but I like the absence. of sound and the slow motion treatment. If you ever fired a weapon, it can be surprisingly loud. Cinema just can't reproduce that dynamic SPL level, so sometimes not having sound at all can be more effective than putting in foley popgun effects. I found the "go loud" scene in Proof of Life pretty memorable too.

(tongue in cheek) and of course Val Kilmer's first cinematic debut... Nick Rivers engaged in a gunfight with the Nazis and playing a game of tic-tac-toe through the window - abstracting the whole concept of a gunfight into a borderline poor joke... just as borderline as Taco Bell is south of the border.

My point, I find relief that different people with different perspectives can come to the same conclusion. HEAT The sound was not overly hollywooded it made me start looking for cover and apparently was entertaining as a scene too.

Like I said, this author is lame.

Not a single war movie. In essence...lame..