Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

It's time to ask again.

My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.

My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.

I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
pull-up resistors.

Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.

Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
Can I rewire it?
Is there a "modern" good keyboard?

Mason C

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Mason,

I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
from the old standard IC.

Two suggestions:

Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.

Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
stores... Ben Myers

On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:

>It's time to ask again.
>
>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>
> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>
>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>pull-up resistors.
>
>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>
>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>Can I rewire it?
>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>
> Mason C
>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

I *love* those old keyboards... so much easier to type on..

I will be very much looking forward to hearing if the adapter works...

I know I hate the keyboards that HP and eMachines provide with their
computers.. I am presently using a "Microsoft Internet Keyboard" on
this Pavilion, which is one heck of a lot better than those provided
by the computer companies, but it still is not as good as the older,
coil-spring-under-each-key clicky-clack type keyboard..

JM


On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

>Mason,
>
>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>from the old standard IC.
>
>Two suggestions:
>
>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>
>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>stores... Ben Myers
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

>Mason,
>
>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>from the old standard IC.
>
>Two suggestions:
>
>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.

I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.

Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.

>
>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>stores... Ben Myers

I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.

Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?


Thanks for the suggestions,

Mason C
>
>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>
>>It's time to ask again.
>>
>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>
>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>
>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>pull-up resistors.
>>
>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>
>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>Can I rewire it?
>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>
>> Mason C
>>
>>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Ya know, a keyboard should NOT be this big a problem. Something else
is going on here.

Wild guess #1:
Are you testing these keyboards by plugging them in and unplugging
them with the computer turned on?
If so, every one of them may very well be toast. "Hot" plugging a
keyboard is the best way in the world to blow it out. You can hot plug
a ps2 mouse, but not a keyboard. Always turn the computer off before
plugging or unplugging a keyboard.

Wild guess #2:
Are you absolutely sure that you aren't plugging these things into
your ps/2 MOUSE connector? After all. it's physically identical to the
keyboard connector.
That would nicely explain why none of them work on your system but
work fine on your friend's system (whose mouse/keyboard connectors
might be more clearly labeled)

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Maon,

PS/2-to-USB adapters are inherently simple devices. A small IC converts the
signals from one interface to the other. Except for the larger, more
complicated and more functional USB hubs, there is no need for more
sophisticated technology here.

No driver is required for any basic 101-key or 104-key (Windows!) keyboard. The
keyboards with all the silly buttons on the top like the so-called internet
keyboards and the other keyboards with special function keys and gizmos are the
ones which require drivers to handle the new wave of great functionality. Gag!

As a previous posting noted, there is something else going on here. I can't put
my finger on it without fingering an actual system and keyboard. My guess is
that HP has made a fundamental change in the keyboard circuitry and/or BIOS to
lock people into their brand of keyboard. If so, here we go again with yet
another attempt to lock people into proprietary garbage! It's the history of
the computer industry... Ben Myers

On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:00:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>Myers) wrote:
>
>>Mason,
>>
>>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>>from the old standard IC.
>>
>>Two suggestions:
>>
>>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>
>I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
>adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
>to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
>for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>
>Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>
>>
>>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>>stores... Ben Myers
>
>I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>
>Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions,
>
> Mason C
>>
>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>
>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>>
>>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>>
>>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>>pull-up resistors.
>>>
>>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>>
>>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>>Can I rewire it?
>>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>>
>>> Mason C
>>>
>>>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:38:32 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:

>
>Ya know, a keyboard should NOT be this big a problem. Something else
>is going on here.
>
>Wild guess #1:
>Are you testing these keyboards by plugging them in and unplugging
>them with the computer turned on?
>If so, every one of them may very well be toast. "Hot" plugging a
>keyboard is the best way in the world to blow it out. You can hot plug
>a ps2 mouse, but not a keyboard. Always turn the computer off before
>plugging or unplugging a keyboard.
>
>Wild guess #2:
>Are you absolutely sure that you aren't plugging these things into
>your ps/2 MOUSE connector? After all. it's physically identical to the
>keyboard connector.
>That would nicely explain why none of them work on your system but
>work fine on your friend's system (whose mouse/keyboard connectors
>might be more clearly labeled)
>
Put simply: none of the above is applicable.

Maybe I didn't give enough detail in my last posts.

In addition, I took the computer and keyboards to a competent
repair shop and they had no better luck.

I need more than "wild guesses".

Mason C

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:19 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

>Maon,
>
>PS/2-to-USB adapters are inherently simple devices. A small IC converts the
>signals from one interface to the other. Except for the larger, more
>complicated and more functional USB hubs, there is no need for more
>sophisticated technology here.
>
>No driver is required for any basic 101-key or 104-key (Windows!) keyboard. The
>keyboards with all the silly buttons on the top like the so-called internet
>keyboards and the other keyboards with special function keys and gizmos are the
>ones which require drivers to handle the new wave of great functionality. Gag!
>
>As a previous posting noted, there is something else going on here. I can't put
>my finger on it without fingering an actual system and keyboard. My guess is
>that HP has made a fundamental change in the keyboard circuitry and/or BIOS to
>lock people into their brand of keyboard. If so, here we go again with yet
>another attempt to lock people into proprietary garbage! It's the history of
>the computer industry... Ben Myers
>

However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older similar
Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
computer.

Mason C
\
>On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:00:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>>Myers) wrote:
>>
>>>Mason,
>>>
>>>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>>>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>>>from the old standard IC.
>>>
>>>Two suggestions:
>>>
>>>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>>>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>>
>>I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
>>adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
>>to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
>>for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>>
>>Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>>
>>>
>>>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>>>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>>>stores... Ben Myers
>>
>>I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>>
>>Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions,
>>
>> Mason C
>>>
>>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>>
>>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>>>
>>>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>>>
>>>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>>>pull-up resistors.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>>>
>>>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>>>Can I rewire it?
>>>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>>>
>>>> Mason C
>>>>
>>>>
>>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Mason,

All we have around our office and house are computers with old IBM 101-key
clicky keyboards. Whenever I have a spare moment (almost never), I clean them
up and sell them with all brands of refurb gear. I use one to test new
brand-name computers, and to work with all the computers loaded with spyware and
browser hijackers that show up here for repair. But every so often, a computer
refuses to work with the IBM keyboard. I have not kept track of exactly which
brands and models, but $#it happens.

My best guess still remains that HP has somehow departed from a long-time
standard with the 505n. Another reason not by an HP? Because it won't work
reliably with non-HP keyboards? Go figure... Ben Myers

On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:35:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

>On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:19 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>Myers) wrote:
>
>>Maon,
>>
>>PS/2-to-USB adapters are inherently simple devices. A small IC converts the
>>signals from one interface to the other. Except for the larger, more
>>complicated and more functional USB hubs, there is no need for more
>>sophisticated technology here.
>>
>>No driver is required for any basic 101-key or 104-key (Windows!) keyboard. The
>>keyboards with all the silly buttons on the top like the so-called internet
>>keyboards and the other keyboards with special function keys and gizmos are the
>>ones which require drivers to handle the new wave of great functionality. Gag!
>>
>>As a previous posting noted, there is something else going on here. I can't put
>>my finger on it without fingering an actual system and keyboard. My guess is
>>that HP has made a fundamental change in the keyboard circuitry and/or BIOS to
>>lock people into their brand of keyboard. If so, here we go again with yet
>>another attempt to lock people into proprietary garbage! It's the history of
>>the computer industry... Ben Myers
>>
>
>However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
>Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older similar
>Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
>computer.
>
> Mason C
>\
>>On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:00:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>>>Myers) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mason,
>>>>
>>>>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>>>>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>>>>from the old standard IC.
>>>>
>>>>Two suggestions:
>>>>
>>>>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>>>>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>>>
>>>I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
>>>adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
>>>to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
>>>for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>>>
>>>Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>>>>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>>>>stores... Ben Myers
>>>
>>>I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>>>
>>>Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestions,
>>>
>>> Mason C
>>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>>>
>>>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>>>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>>>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>>>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>>>>
>>>>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>>>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>>>>pull-up resistors.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>>>>Can I rewire it?
>>>>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mason C
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
news:rjv9b0t3sog02vigj0j9iguh4eok6r2sov@4ax.com...
> >
>
> However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
> Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older
similar
> Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
> computer.
>
> Mason C
> \

Mason,

Unless I missed the details in a post I didn't see, Is your problem that the
keyboard doesn't work in Windows?

Does it work while booting? Can you go into the BIOS setup?

If the keyboard works in the BIOS setup and not in windows, it probably
indicates the BIOS and electrical connections are OK.

If it fails in Windows, is the multimedia keyboard driver still being
loaded? Can you boot into safe mode where most drivers are not loaded?

It is possible that a multimedia keyboard driver is causing the problem?
You'll have to provide the information that tells us what is happening.

As the computer starts up, do you see the keyboard lights flash as the
keyboard is reset?

Does the BIOS report the keyboard as it starts? You may have to try this
with a keyboard that works and the one that doesn't to see if any
differences are reported.

Perhaps the answers to these questions will help others point you in the
right direction.

craigm

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:52:11 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

>
>My best guess still remains that HP has somehow departed from a long-time
>standard with the 505n. Another reason not by an HP? Because it won't work
>reliably with non-HP keyboards? Go figure... Ben Myers

Jeeezzz..."It's deja vu all over again" (Thanks, Yogi)

Anybody have a copy of "Microsoft Keyboard Simulator"?

You cyberkids will say "What the hell is he talking about?"

You cyberfogies will understand, and simply smile.... ;-)

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Good thinking and excellent suggestions for all to remember! ... Ben Myers

On Wed, 26 May 2004 17:58:49 -0500, "craigm" <none@domain.invalid> wrote:

>
>"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
>news:rjv9b0t3sog02vigj0j9iguh4eok6r2sov@4ax.com...
>> >
>>
>> However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
>> Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older
>similar
>> Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
>> computer.
>>
>> Mason C
>> \
>
>Mason,
>
>Unless I missed the details in a post I didn't see, Is your problem that the
>keyboard doesn't work in Windows?
>
>Does it work while booting? Can you go into the BIOS setup?
>
>If the keyboard works in the BIOS setup and not in windows, it probably
>indicates the BIOS and electrical connections are OK.
>
>If it fails in Windows, is the multimedia keyboard driver still being
>loaded? Can you boot into safe mode where most drivers are not loaded?
>
>It is possible that a multimedia keyboard driver is causing the problem?
>You'll have to provide the information that tells us what is happening.
>
>As the computer starts up, do you see the keyboard lights flash as the
>keyboard is reset?
>
>Does the BIOS report the keyboard as it starts? You may have to try this
>with a keyboard that works and the one that doesn't to see if any
>differences are reported.
>
>Perhaps the answers to these questions will help others point you in the
>right direction.
>
>craigm
>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:30:12 GMT, Mason A. Clark
<masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote:

>On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:38:32 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:
>
>>
>>Ya know, a keyboard should NOT be this big a problem. Something else
>>is going on here.
>>
>>Wild guess #1:
>>Are you testing these keyboards by plugging them in and unplugging
>>them with the computer turned on?
>>If so, every one of them may very well be toast. "Hot" plugging a
>>keyboard is the best way in the world to blow it out. You can hot plug
>>a ps2 mouse, but not a keyboard. Always turn the computer off before
>>plugging or unplugging a keyboard.
>>
>>Wild guess #2:
>>Are you absolutely sure that you aren't plugging these things into
>>your ps/2 MOUSE connector? After all. it's physically identical to the
>>keyboard connector.
>>That would nicely explain why none of them work on your system but
>>work fine on your friend's system (whose mouse/keyboard connectors
>>mi