Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Hi,

This is my first trip to this ng.

I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college. I've
always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again), Dell, and
homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their laser
printers.

I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at Circuit
City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell me, what's
your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily with Intel
processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary hardware/software (esp.
bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out if I ever had to
repartition?


Thanks much,
Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:53:01 GMT
Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:

>
> I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at Circuit
> City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell me,
> what's your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily with
> Intel processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary hardware/software
> (esp. bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out if I ever had to
> repartition?

Make sure you get a CD with the drivers, and recovery CDs
with the OS. On the whole, the big brands you mention offer
nothing over the (usually cheaper) reputable Taiwanese brands
such as Acer or Asus. As a matter of fact, they have their
notebooks built by them (or other contract manufacturers such
as Samsung).

--
Stefaan
--
"What is stated clearly conceives easily." -- Inspired sales droid

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu> wrote in
news:20040504094726.3429d70e.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu:

> On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:53:01 GMT
> Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at
>> Circuit City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone
>> tell me, what's your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops,
>> primarily with Intel processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary
>> hardware/software (esp. bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out
>> if I ever had to repartition?
>
> Make sure you get a CD with the drivers, and recovery CDs
> with the OS. On the whole, the big brands you mention offer
> nothing over the (usually cheaper) reputable Taiwanese brands
> such as Acer or Asus. As a matter of fact, they have their
> notebooks built by them (or other contract manufacturers such
> as Samsung).
>

Thanks for the reply, Stefaan,

Do you mention CD drivers and recoverys CDs because of what I am reading
on this ng about desktops? That is, there are many posters complaining
that their machines didn't come with the most recent CD drivers and they
are not on the HP site, and that recovery CDs aren't included with your
purchase, but have to be requested online?

Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:32:29 +0000 (UTC)
Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:

> Do you mention CD drivers and recoverys CDs because of what I am reading
> on this ng about desktops? That is, there are many posters complaining
> that their machines didn't come with the most recent CD drivers and they
> are not on the HP site, and that recovery CDs aren't included with your
> purchase, but have to be requested online?

Recent desktops _and notebooks_ from HP have shown
a disturbing trend towards absence of CDs. Drivers
and the OS reinstallation data are provided only on a
hidden partition, which IMHO is totally inacceptable.

I would not consider buying such a product, whomever
the supplier. When I shopped around for a notebook
earlier this year, I selected an Acer because of the
fact that it came with a decent driver disk (for W2K
and XP) and recovery CDs for the OS and all the applications.
The big brand (HP and Toshiba) notebooks I looked at either
had neither drivers nor recovery CDs, or no drivers (Toshiba,
where the salesman offered to give me a copy of a CD he
claimed to have).

In addition, the fit and finish of the Acer were way above
the HP, and as the warranties were similar (2 years carry-in),
I went for the Acer.

Something you might also consider is whether the notebook
can be used without the battery. This will extend the
life of the battery when the computer is used a lot
when connected to the mains.

--
Stefaan
--
"What is stated clearly conceives easily." -- Inspired sales droid

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

One point you might ask about is the security of a laptop.

Some people say that a student is much more likely to have a laptop
stolen than a desktop. It is just to easy to walk away with.

Ask people whose children have been to college or university lately
if this is likely to be an issue.

Aidan Grey


On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:53:01 GMT, Bruce wrote:

>Hi,
>
>This is my first trip to this ng.
>
>I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college. I've
>always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again), Dell, and
>homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their laser
>printers.
>
>I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at Circuit
>City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell me, what's
>your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily with Intel
>processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary hardware/software (esp.
>bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out if I ever had to
>repartition?
>
>
>Thanks much,
>Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Aidan Grey" <apgrey@nospam.con> wrote in message
news:ncterlbqlffrlbapn.hx7pwd1.pminews@news.odyssey.on.ca...
> One point you might ask about is the security of a laptop.
>
> Some people say that a student is much more likely to have a
laptop
> stolen than a desktop. It is just to easy to walk away with.
>
> Ask people whose children have been to college or university
lately
> if this is likely to be an issue.
>
> Aidan Grey
>


There are many security cables for laptops which on the theft side
make it a "not so likely" event. I have mine secured through a whole
in my desk with a metal ring, the other end is secured via a cable
with a key. If the dope were to try and remove the unit it would
render it useless for sale and broken for any use other than my
insurance company claim.

I would recommend the targus notebook cable lock. its worth the $40 I
spent on my laptop. And its an HP ZE4420US and HP has been of no help
fixing this unit even though its under warranty. I have fixed it
myself and glad I did. If you buy an HP lap top or desktop expect to
receive Poor or non existence in service.

Elector

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Aidan Grey" <apgrey@nospam.con> wrote in
news:ncterlbqlffrlbapn.hx7pwd1.pminews@news.odyssey.on.ca:

> One point you might ask about is the security of a laptop.
>
> Some people say that a student is much more likely to have a laptop
> stolen than a desktop. It is just to easy to walk away with.
>
> Ask people whose children have been to college or university lately
> if this is likely to be an issue.
>
> Aidan Grey
>
>
> On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:53:01 GMT, Bruce wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>This is my first trip to this ng.
>>
>>I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college.
>>I've always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again), Dell,
>>and homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their laser
>>printers.
>>
>>I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at
>>Circuit City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell
>>me, what's your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily
>>with Intel processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary
>>hardware/software (esp. bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out
>>if I ever had to repartition?
>>
>>
>>Thanks much,
>>Bruce
>
>
>

Hi, Aidan,

Yep, that's a consideration. My oldest son graduates next month, and he
has both a desktop and a laptop. He's been able to hold on to his laptop
because he keeps his eye on it when at school, and he has his own off
campus apartment with trustworthy roomates. He also brings it home when
he visits.

When he was in the dorms, he only had a desktop, which we cabled to the
wall. When they closed the dorms during break, he'd bring it home.

My daughter hasn't decided yet if she wants to go the laptop route, or
stick with a desktop. She likes the full size keyboard, mouse, and
monitor. (Yes, I know about docking stations.) I'm on the fence about
it. I can repair desktops, but if her laptop gets flakey, there's nothing
I can do, and from what I read, no company (especially HP), has good
service.

Bruce

But,

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Get an IBM ThinkPad. Solid construction. Good warranty service, if needed.
Well designed. Not found in mass market outlets. Prices start a little below
$1000. If battery life is a major consideration, get one with a slower
power-conserving Pentium Centrino and disable the WiFi except when in use.

One of my clients bought a 3GHz Dell notebook without asking my advice, then
complained that the battery lasts only an hour. So she has a scalding hot
notebook which won't run too long without line power. Sort of like one of those
quarter-mile drag racers. Fast = power hungry... Ben Myers

On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:53:01 GMT, Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>This is my first trip to this ng.
>
>I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college. I've
>always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again), Dell, and
>homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their laser
>printers.
>
>I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at Circuit
>City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell me, what's
>your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily with Intel
>processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary hardware/software (esp.
>bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out if I ever had to
>repartition?
>
>
>Thanks much,
>Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in
news:40996976.17331195@news.charter.net:

> Get an IBM ThinkPad. Solid construction. Good warranty service, if
> needed. Well designed. Not found in mass market outlets. Prices
> start a little below $1000. If battery life is a major consideration,
> get one with a slower power-conserving Pentium Centrino and disable
> the WiFi except when in use.
>
> One of my clients bought a 3GHz Dell notebook without asking my
> advice, then complained that the battery lasts only an hour. So she
> has a scalding hot notebook which won't run too long without line
> power. Sort of like one of those quarter-mile drag racers. Fast =
> power hungry... Ben Myers
>
> On Tue, 04 May 2004 05:53:01 GMT, Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>This is my first trip to this ng.
>>
>>I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college.
>>I've always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again), Dell,
>>and homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their laser
>>printers.
>>
>>I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at
>>Circuit City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell
>>me, what's your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily
>>with Intel processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary
>>hardware/software (esp. bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out
>>if I ever had to repartition?
>>
>>
>>Thanks much,
>>Bruce
>
>

Hi, Ben,

I've just begun to look at the ThinkPads for all the reasons you mention.

Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu> wrote in
news:20040504183427.5b43f2b3.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu:

> Recent desktops _and notebooks_ from HP have shown
> a disturbing trend towards absence of CDs. Drivers
> and the OS reinstallation data are provided only on a
> hidden partition, which IMHO is totally inacceptable.

FYI: The HP Notebook (ze5260us) that I just bought a couple of weeks ago
came with a Driver Recovery CD.


--
Gail Gurman gail@homemail.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently on the lookout for an Oakland area paralegal internship or
part-time technical writing contract.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@deletemeecc.lu> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:32:29 +0000 (UTC)
> Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> Do you mention CD drivers and recoverys CDs because of what I am reading
>> on this ng about desktops? That is, there are many posters complaining
>> that their machines didn't come with the most recent CD drivers and they
>> are not on the HP site, and that recovery CDs aren't included with your
>> purchase, but have to be requested online?
>
> Recent desktops _and notebooks_ from HP have shown
> a disturbing trend towards absence of CDs. Drivers
> and the OS reinstallation data are provided only on a
> hidden partition, which IMHO is totally inacceptable.
>
> I would not consider buying such a product, whomever
> the supplier. When I shopped around for a notebook
> earlier this year, I selected an Acer because of the
> fact that it came with a decent driver disk (for W2K
> and XP) and recovery CDs for the OS and all the applications.
> The big brand (HP and Toshiba) notebooks I looked at either
> had neither drivers nor recovery CDs, or no drivers (Toshiba,
> where the salesman offered to give me a copy of a CD he
> claimed to have).

While there is some legitimate need for recovery CDs, IMO the 'need'
is often blown out of proportion. One also needs backup of one's *own*
stuff (i.e. 'data', configuration information, installed freeware, etc.)
and, for all intents and purposes, one needs crash-recovery backup. In
case of a crash, it is not practical for Joe User to re-install all his
software, reconfigure every of the zillion [1] settings which he has
set/changed over the last months to years (and restore his (data)
backup). When people have proper backup, including crash-recovery
backup, they normally do not need recovery or/and driver CDs. (Yes,
there are exceptions, but they are very rare and solvable with
third-party software.)

In my case, for Windows XP Professional, I use the Dantz Retrospect
Express software which came with my external Maxtor disk. It allows to
create a Disaster Recovery CD (yes, you (temporarily) need a CD writer
for that). Other people use stuff like Drive Image, etc..

[1] Case in point: My *incomplete* [2] list of re-configuration
instructions is currently some 1700 lines!
[2] The main list refers to other files which contain additional,
per-subject, re-configuration instructions.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Gail Gurman <gail@homemail.com> wrote in
news:Xns94E1C17FCB017gailhomemailcom@63.223.5.250:

> Stefaan A Eeckels <tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu> wrote in
> news:20040504183427.5b43f2b3.tengo@DELETEMEecc.lu:
>
>> Recent desktops _and notebooks_ from HP have shown
>> a disturbing trend towards absence of CDs. Drivers
>> and the OS reinstallation data are provided only on a
>> hidden partition, which IMHO is totally inacceptable.
>
> FYI: The HP Notebook (ze5260us) that I just bought a couple of weeks ago
> came with a Driver Recovery CD.
>
>

Hi, Gail,

Can you tell me, what's the battery life of that unit?
(The ze5160us is one laptop on my (long) list.)

Thanks,
Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

In article <409b4efc$0$60793$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>,
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
# While there is some legitimate need for recovery CDs, IMO the 'need'
#is often blown out of proportion. One also needs backup of one's *own*
#stuff (i.e. 'data', configuration information, installed freeware, etc.)
#and, for all intents and purposes, one needs crash-recovery backup.

Yeah. Right.

How many recordable DVD's is your complete 30 gig-used system
crash-recovery backup stored on? How old is it?

I thought so...

How many joe users with 2 year old machines, who have a 20G or 80G
system, have ever made a crash recovery backup during those 2 years?

I thought so...

How many joe users, with freshly crashed 2 year old machines, can
present their "expert" friend with everything that ever came with the
system... but no crash recovery backup?

I thought so...

In
#case of a crash, it is not practical for Joe User to re-install all his
#software,

That's why they call on people like us, and the first thing we ask for
is the first thing they don't have...

Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Save the environment! Buy US-made
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | heavy industries products.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Hi,

Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote:
#I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at Circuit
#City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell me, what's
#your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily with Intel
#processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary hardware/software (esp.
#bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out if I ever had to
#repartition?

All laptops are comparatively proprietary in drivers and hardware
compared to desktops. They are also very limited in hardware upgrades.
You can upgrade or replace the memory and maybe the disk, and there are
a couple of PC-Card slots, that's about it.

If you go the laptop route, I suggest getting a Pentium M. Runs faster
at half the megahertz because of the big cache. Get one with the latest
Windoze on it, get the h/w upgrades when you buy it, because everything
related to that laptop model gets hard to find exactly 6 months after
you buy it.... if not less time.

Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Save the environment! Buy US-made
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | heavy industries products.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Bruce" wrote
>
> I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college. I've
> always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again), Dell, and
> homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their laser
> printers.
>
> I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at Circuit
> City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone tell me, what's
> your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops, primarily with Intel
> processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary hardware/software (esp.
> bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out if I ever had to
> repartition?
>
I've bought 2 HP notebooks for my older kids in the last year and had
absolutely no problems that couldn't be solved by not allowing college-bound
teenagers to download viruses to them...... I've had to repartition both on
2 occassions (my personal HP notebook hasn't had problem one in nearly 3
years) but it didn't really cause any major headaches. I've worked for
companies that bought Dell's and for some reason EVERY Dell notebook that
I've been issued has failed within a couple of months, after sending the
unit to be repaired it always comes back and I've never had a problem
afterward, but my experience is 3 for 3 with Dell failures. My new work IBM
notebook has worked flawlessly but I'm not crazy about the design and layout

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"SWMyers" <swmyers@hotmaeel.com> wrote in
news:MnUmc.9251$nL.8032@fe1.columbus.rr.com:

> "Bruce" wrote
>>
>> I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college.
>> I've always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again),
>> Dell, and homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except their
>> laser printers.
>>
>> I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at
>> Circuit City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone
>> tell me, what's your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops,
>> primarily with Intel processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary
>> hardware/software (esp. bios) that would cause me to pull my hair out
>> if I ever had to repartition?
>>
> I've bought 2 HP notebooks for my older kids in the last year and had
> absolutely no problems that couldn't be solved by not allowing
> college-bound teenagers to download viruses to them...... I've had to
> repartition both on 2 occassions (my personal HP notebook hasn't had
> problem one in nearly 3 years) but it didn't really cause any major
> headaches. I've worked for companies that bought Dell's and for some
> reason EVERY Dell notebook that I've been issued has failed within a
> couple of months, after sending the unit to be repaired it always
> comes back and I've never had a problem afterward, but my experience
> is 3 for 3 with Dell failures. My new work IBM notebook has worked
> flawlessly but I'm not crazy about the design and layout
>
>
>

Thanks for the reply, SW.

That's good to hear about the HPs, since they are on my short list.

Am I correct in my understanding that the Pentium-M is the Pentium
Centrino that has a specific chipset, WLAN adapter, etc., and not the
same as the Pentium 4-M, per

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20030205/

BTW, I know what you mean about teens and viruses. I've got 6 machines
networked in the house, and regardless of all the firewalls and av
software on them, there's one that seems to keep catching viruses. I've
had to repartition one machine three times; twice between 12/03 and 2/04.
Luckily, I don't let any of their machines write to the others over the
network.

Bruce

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Bruce <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote in
news:Xns94E2C28CAE136parcxmannetscapenet@63.240.76.16:

> "SWMyers" <swmyers@hotmaeel.com> wrote in
> news:MnUmc.9251$nL.8032@fe1.columbus.rr.com:
>
>> "Bruce" wrote
>>>
>>> I've been looking at laptops for my daugher who's going to college.
>>> I've always owned wintel type desktops by Gateway (never again),
>>> Dell, and homebuilt. I'm not familiar with HP products, except
>>> their laser printers.
>>>
>>> I was comparing Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, and HP laptops tonight at
>>> Circuit City. I'm in the $1500 and less price range. Can anyone
>>> tell me, what's your opinion of the reliability of HP laptops,
>>> primarily with Intel processors? Also, is there a lot proprietary
>>> hardware/software (esp. bios) that would cause me to pull my hair
>>> out if I ever had to repartition?
>>>
>> I've bought 2 HP notebooks for my older kids in the last year and had
>> absolutely no problems that couldn't be solved by not allowing
>> college-bound teenagers to download viruses to them...... I've had to
>> repartition both on 2 occassions (my personal HP notebook hasn't had
>> problem one in nearly 3 years) but it didn't really cause any major
>> headaches. I've worked for companies that bought Dell's and for some
>> reason EVERY Dell notebook that I've been issued has failed within a
>> couple of months, after sending the unit to be repaired it always
>> comes back and I've never had a problem afterward, but my experience
>> is 3 for 3 with Dell failures. My new work IBM notebook has worked
>> flawlessly but I'm not crazy about the design and layout
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the reply, SW.
>
> That's good to hear about the HPs, since they are on my short list.
>
> Am I correct in my understanding that the Pentium-M is the Pentium
> Centrino that has a specific chipset, WLAN adapter, etc., and not the
> same as the Pentium 4-M, per
>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20030205/
>
> BTW, I know what you mean about teens and viruses. I've got 6
> machines networked in the house, and regardless of all the firewalls
> and av software on them, there's one that seems to keep catching
> viruses. I've had to repartition one machine three times; twice
> between 12/03 and 2/04. Luckily, I don't let any of their machines
> write to the others over the network.
>
> Bruce
>
>

My apologies, the Pentium M question was meant for Ken.

Bruce