Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Does anyone know if the Kingwin KF-23-IPF or any of the other ball
bearing fan models of mobile racks will fit a standard Dell Dimension
case. I have two 5 inch bays open, but I have not measured them and I
read a complaint by someone of another brand not fitting.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Or if anyone knows of a quality mobile rack for hds that they have used
with a dimension xps-t800, please advise.

inquiringmind <inquiringmind_not@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Xns969F8C9343332inquiringmindnotyaho@213.155.197.138:

> Does anyone know if the Kingwin KF-23-IPF or any of the other ball
> bearing fan models of mobile racks will fit a standard Dell Dimension
> case. I have two 5 inch bays open, but I have not measured them and I
> read a complaint by someone of another brand not fitting.
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"inquiringmind" wrote:
> Does anyone know if the Kingwin KF-23-IPF or any of the other ball
> bearing fan models of mobile racks will fit a standard Dell Dimension
> case. I have two 5 inch bays open, but I have not measured them and I
> read a complaint by someone of another brand not fitting.

I use the KF-101-IPF model that has the fan in the bottom of the
removable tray. Otherwise, it's identical to the KF-23-IPF, and it
fits my Dimension perfectly. The 5-inch bays are an industry
standard, and it would be a really off-brand to have non-standard
size bays. BTW, one of the hardware websites tested several
fan configurations for effectiveness of cooling, and the kind with
the fan in the bottom of the tray came out best and it was also
quieter than the kind with one or more fans in the front. I can
attest that it keeps my Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 hard drive
quite cool. If you run into problems getting ribbon cables to fit,
try "round" cables. I use the kind with the braided shield, and I
get them from here: http://www.svc.com/cables.html .

*TimDaniels*

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

on 26 Jul 2005, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote
in news:V6udnby-zNqHS3vfRVn-tg@comcast.com:

Thanks for the reply Timothy.

The only thing is that I will have two drives on top of each other
and on the bottom of two optical drives. Where's the bottom fan
going to get a good shot at exhaust if it is sandwiched in that
configuration? With the size of the rack, I would think there will
be little space between the bottom of one drive and the top of the
next. That is why the KF-23 which I believe has three fans seems
to be better for cooling. Do you have a link for that study?

I think the KF-101 is the only one that comes with a new fan when
you order an extra drawer, right? Also what model is your
Dimension? Reason I posted is one guy had a problem with another
mfg's rack not fitting the Dimension.


> I use the KF-101-IPF model that has the fan in the bottom of
> the
> removable tray. Otherwise, it's identical to the KF-23-IPF, and
> it fits my Dimension perfectly. The 5-inch bays are an industry
> standard, and it would be a really off-brand to have
> non-standard size bays. BTW, one of the hardware websites
> tested several fan configurations for effectiveness of cooling,
> and the kind with the fan in the bottom of the tray came out
> best and it was also quieter than the kind with one or more fans
> in the front. I can attest that it keeps my Maxtor DiamondMax
> Plus 9 hard drive quite cool. If you run into problems getting
> ribbon cables to fit, try "round" cables. I use the kind with
> the braided shield, and I get them from here:
> http://www.svc.com/cables.html .
>
> *TimDaniels*

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Here is all that I can find at this time:
http://www.maximum3d.com/printpage.php?id=100

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
one, probably because the fan in the back does
nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the
bottom.

The trays for KF-101-IPF each have a fan in the bottom,
but models with front fans have the fans attached to the tray,
too. The bottom fan lies flat against a hole in the bottom
of the tray, drawing air in the front of the tray and then past
the HD's circuit board, exhausting horizontally backward into
the case due to a plastic fan shroud. The fan lies completely
within the profile of the front of the tray, and trays do not interfere
with each other from above or below, so I assume they can
be stacked. I haven't tried it, though.

My Dimension is an XPS-R450, purchased in Jan '99.

*TimDaniels*

"inquiringmind" wrote:
> on 26 Jul 2005, "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply Timothy.
>
> The only thing is that I will have two drives on top of each other
> and on the bottom of two optical drives. Where's the bottom fan
> going to get a good shot at exhaust if it is sandwiched in that
> configuration? With the size of the rack, I would think there will
> be little space between the bottom of one drive and the top of the
> next. That is why the KF-23 which I believe has three fans seems
> to be better for cooling. Do you have a link for that study?
>
> I think the KF-101 is the only one that comes with a new fan when
> you order an extra drawer, right? Also what model is your
> Dimension? Reason I posted is one guy had a problem with another
> mfg's rack not fitting the Dimension.
>
>
>> I use the KF-101-IPF model that has the fan in the bottom of
>> the
>> removable tray. Otherwise, it's identical to the KF-23-IPF, and
>> it fits my Dimension perfectly. The 5-inch bays are an industry
>> standard, and it would be a really off-brand to have
>> non-standard size bays. BTW, one of the hardware websites
>> tested several fan configurations for effectiveness of cooling,
>> and the kind with the fan in the bottom of the tray came out
>> best and it was also quieter than the kind with one or more fans
>> in the front. I can attest that it keeps my Maxtor DiamondMax
>> Plus 9 hard drive quite cool. If you run into problems getting
>> ribbon cables to fit, try "round" cables. I use the kind with
>> the braided shield, and I get them from here:
>> http://www.svc.com/cables.html .
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Just buy them. Pricewatch.com currently lists a low price
of $24 which includes shipping. In my opinion, these
aftermarket items are designed according to what people
will buy and not according to what makes engineering sense
or what tests have shown to be most effective. The bottom
fan design just happens to work, but it's hard to describe,
so people continue to buy the ones with fans in the front or
back.

*TimDaniels*


"Plastique" wrote:
> Ok, thanks Timothy.
>
> I read both the reviews. They both criticize the lack of
> provisions for exhaust of fan airflow for both models, with the
> 101 model being better in that regard. It is interesting that a
> company that specializes in mobile racks and puts fans in the
> racks doesn't allow for proper exhaust of the fan airflow,
> although according to the review you cited, the 101 model does
> provide cooling to the drive. Since the case on the 101 is almost
> fully enclosed and the air flow is from front grill to fan to
> small openings in rear, I guess the space under the unit (with
> drives stacked on top of each other) is not that critical. I will
> measure the vertical distance to see however what room will exist
> between the two drives.
>
> Thanks very much for your help.
>
> on 26 Jul 2005, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote
> in news:ctadnQ5jEPb_sHrfRVn-sw@comcast.com:
>
>> Here is all that I can find at this time:
>> http://www.maximum3d.com/printpage.php?id=100
>>
>> http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
>> This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
>> one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
>> bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
>> model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
>> one, probably because the fan in the back does
>> nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the
>> bottom.
>>
>> The trays for KF-101-IPF each have a fan in the bottom,
>> but models with front fans have the fans attached to the tray,
>> too. The bottom fan lies flat against a hole in the bottom
>> of the tray, drawing air in the front of the tray and then past
>> the HD's circuit board, exhausting horizontally backward into
>> the case due to a plastic fan shroud. The fan lies completely
>> within the profile of the front of the tray, and trays do not
>> interfere with each other from above or below, so I assume they
>> can be stacked. I haven't tried it, though.
>>
>> My Dimension is an XPS-R450, purchased in Jan '99.
>>
>> *TimDaniels*
>>
>> "inquiringmind" wrote:
>>> on 26 Jul 2005, "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply Timothy.
>>>
>>> The only thing is that I will have two drives on top of each
>>> other and on the bottom of two optical drives. Where's the
>>> bottom fan going to get a good shot at exhaust if it is
>>> sandwiched in that configuration? With the size of the rack, I
>>> would think there will be little space between the bottom of
>>> one drive and the top of the next. That is why the KF-23 which
>>> I believe has three fans seems to be better for cooling. Do you
>>> have a link for that study?
>>>
>>> I think the KF-101 is the only one that comes with a new fan
>>> when you order an extra drawer, right? Also what model is your
>>> Dimension? Reason I posted is one guy had a problem with
>>> another mfg's rack not fitting the Dimension.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I use the KF-101-IPF model that has the fan in the bottom
>>>> of the
>>>> removable tray. Otherwise, it's identical to the KF-23-IPF,
>>>> and it fits my Dimension perfectly. The 5-inch bays are an
>>>> industry standard, and it would be a really off-brand to have
>>>> non-standard size bays. BTW, one of the hardware websites
>>>> tested several fan configurations for effectiveness of
>>>> cooling, and the kind with the fan in the bottom of the tray
>>>> came out best and it was also quieter than the kind with one
>>>> or more fans in the front. I can attest that it keeps my
>>>> Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 hard drive quite cool. If you run
>>>> into problems getting ribbon cables to fit, try "round"
>>>> cables. I use the kind with the braided shield, and I get
>>>> them from here: http://www.svc.com/cables.html .
>>>>
>>>> *TimDaniels*
>>>
>>
>
>
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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

FWIW, I have four KF21-IPFs, and the drive temps are
practically the same in those as they were racked
up normally. That'd be around 40C, or 45C when running
non-stop. The KF21 has the one fan at the back. I'm
looking at 39C right now (3 platter PATA/7K250). For
those that want to listen to three fans, there's the
KF23-, two front fans, one back. Newegg has it. Also
a two fanner, KF22 (same as the KF23, but one fan removed).
And the KF21 the same, but only the one fan. I find
this is much better, and quieter, than using USB external.

40C = 40x2-10%+32=104F (it's a lot hotter in Phoenix)

TD- [Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:46:29 -0700]:
>http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
>This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
>one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
>bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
>model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
>one, probably because the fan in the back does
>nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the>bottom.


--
40th Floor - Software @ http://40th.com/
iPlay : the ultimate audio player for mobiles
parametric eq, xfeed, reverb; all on a mobile

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

<hel@40th.com> wrote:
> FWIW, I have four KF21-IPFs, and the drive temps are
> practically the same in those as they were racked
> up normally. That'd be around 40C, or 45C when running
> non-stop. The KF21 has the one fan at the back. I'm
> looking at 39C right now (3 platter PATA/7K250). [...]


Interesting! If you ever try a KF-101-IPF (bottom fan),
please report your results with temperature and noise
levels.

*TimDaniels*

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

hel@40th.com () wrote in
news:Ha3Ge.2365$PC7.1089@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:

> FWIW, I have four KF21-IPFs, and the drive temps are
> practically the same in those as they were racked
> up normally. That'd be around 40C, or 45C when running
> non-stop. The KF21 has the one fan at the back. I'm
> looking at 39C right now (3 platter PATA/7K250). For
> those that want to listen to three fans, there's the
> KF23-, two front fans, one back. Newegg has it. Also
> a two fanner, KF22 (same as the KF23, but one fan removed).
> And the KF21 the same, but only the one fan. I find
> this is much better, and quieter, than using USB external.

Thanks for the additional info. I searched for reviews of mobile racks
and found that both the Kingwin and Vartec models were criticized for
not having enough ventilation to the drawer for the fans to properly
exhaust. On the Vartec, which sells for around $10 more, but has a bad
fan alarm and temp readout, the fan was partly obstructed by the frame.
Seems to me these guys should know to drill a few stategically placed
holes for the fans to exhaust to. If you have multiple fans, if one dies
the others may still operate. But doesn't matter how many you have if
they cannot do their job due to restricted airflow.

>
> 40C = 40x2-10%+32=104F (it's a lot hotter in Phoenix)
>
> TD- [Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:46:29 -0700]:
> >http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/kingwin/
> >This 2nd review looks at a triple fan model - two in front,
> >one in the back - and a two-fan model - one on the
> >bottom and one in the back. It prefers the two-fan
> >model. Unfortunately, Kingwin no longer makes that
> >one, probably because the fan in the back does
> >nothing, and KF-101-IPF has only the fan in the>bottom.
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"inquiringmind" <inquiringmind_not@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ham96A2F0E1BF85inquiringmindnotyaho@213.155.197.138...
> on 28 Jul 2005, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote
> in news:L76dnZ4NzZUa8HTfRVn-jQ@comcast.com:
>
>> "inquiringmind" wrote:
>>> Thanks for the additional info. I searched for reviews of
>>> mobile racks and found that both the Kingwin and Vartec models
>>> were criticized for not having enough ventilation to the drawer
>>> for the fans to properly exhaust. On the Vartec, which sells
>>> for around $10 more, but has a bad fan alarm and temp readout,
>>> the fan was partly obstructed by the frame. Seems to me these
>>> guys should know to drill a few stategically placed holes for
>>> the fans to exhaust to. If you have multiple fans, if one dies
>>> the others may still operate. But doesn't matter how many you
>>> have if they cannot do their job due to restricted airflow.
>>
>
> I never buy anything unless I know what I'm buying, especially
> something as important as a component that might play a role in HD
> longevity.

<snip>


Tim's given you good information - specific information.

Look at it this way: you could easily drop $24 on a bad meal at Chili's.
Additionally, since you're concerned about HDD longevity and since you
apparently have a heat issue, this thread has added three days of heat to
your drives.

Find it. Buy it. Try it.

jmo.


Stew

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"inquiringmind" wrote:
> I never buy anything unless I know what I'm buying, [....]

You'll never know enough to buy because no one
reviewer has reviewed all the options you're considering.
Just buy one for $24 like I said, and then inspect it instead
of just looking at pictures and guessing the rest. You'll
see that the air does have somewhere to go. Then install
it and run a SMART test for temperature range. Then you'll
know far more than you'll ever know from reading reviews
on products that have been installed in someone else's
PC than your own. And you might even come to trust
your own judgement.

*TimDaniels*

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

BTW, InquiringMind, I find that the sound of one sole
fan working and not working is quite apparent. In the
case of the bottom fan, it's not the sound of whining
fan blades, it's the sound of the whooshing air entering
the front of the tray that I notice when the mobile tray
is powered up versus when it's not powered. If there
were to be two front fans, I suspect that the difference
between one fan working and two fans working wouldn't
be as apparent. In that regard, having one big bottom
fan would actually be safer than having 2 or 3 little axial
fans because you'd be more likely to notice the failure
of a fan without having to run a SMART test.

*TimDaniels*

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote

> BTW, InquiringMind, I find that the sound of one sole
> fan working and not working is quite apparent. In the
> case of the bottom fan, it's not the sound of whining
> fan blades, it's the sound of the whooshing air entering
> the front of the tray that I notice when the mobile tray
> is powered up versus when it's not powered. If there
> were to be two front fans, I suspect that the difference
> between one fan working and two fans working wouldn't
> be as apparent. In that regard, having one big bottom
> fan would actually be safer than having 2 or 3 little axial
> fans because you'd be more likely to notice the failure
> of a fan without having to run a SMART test.

It makes a lot more sense to automate failure detection,
essentially because nothing else can do anything useful
if the fan fails when you arent near the PC.

And that should obviously be integrated failure detection
which involves checking the other fans as well with a decent
system to handle what to do on fan failure with any of the fans.

And I'm sick to death of noisy systems as well. Just
another reason for not using removable drive bays at all.