Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Here's something to ponder:
 
I've been considering an XPS Gen 5.
 
Now I've found a reliable box builder offering up a computer with
very similar features and capabilities, but built on an Asus P5WD2
Premium motherboard. This is one of Asus' top of the line "dual core"
motherboards, built around the Intel chipset and with a number of  
features NOT found on the "Dell" motherboards (and I have no idea who is  
making the Dell motherboards these days).
 
The prices are about the same, maybe $100 different for very similarly  
equipped units, and this includes Dell's current steep discount on the  
XPS 5. But the non-Dell machine has a steel and aluminum Coolermaster  
case, a 550-watt power supply, a three-year warranty (without having a  
call sent off to a call center in India), and includes a full retail box  
version of your choice of Windoze operating system.
 
I've had Asus-based machines before. In fact, I am using one now.
 
Advice?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I would go with the local machine as long as they are truly reliable.
if they fold in a year your warranty also goes away. As long as you are
fairly handy I would go with it. Dell computers in general tend to come
with OK but not oversized power supplies and the motherboards do not
offer much in the way of features.  Video card choices are also limited.
 
Wayne
 
HarryKrause wrote:
 
> Here's something to ponder:
>  
> I've been considering an XPS Gen 5.
>  
> Now I've found a reliable box builder offering up a computer with
> very similar features and capabilities, but built on an Asus P5WD2
> Premium motherboard. This is one of Asus' top of the line "dual core"
> motherboards, built around the Intel chipset and with a number of
> features NOT found on the "Dell" motherboards (and I have no idea who
> is making the Dell motherboards these days).
>  
> The prices are about the same, maybe $100 different for very
> similarly equipped units, and this includes Dell's current steep
> discount on the XPS 5. But the non-Dell machine has a steel and
> aluminum Coolermaster case, a 550-watt power supply, a three-year
> warranty (without having a call sent off to a call center in India),
> and includes a full retail box version of your choice of Windoze
> operating system.
>  
> I've had Asus-based machines before. In fact, I am using one now.
>  
> Advice?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"wayne" <nope@nowhere.com> wrote in message  
newsdednbu9QskZfXnfRVn-2A@comcast.com...
>I would go with the local machine as long as they are truly reliable.
> if they fold in a year your warranty also goes away. As long as you are
> fairly handy I would go with it. Dell computers in general tend to come
> with OK but not oversized power supplies and the motherboards do not
> offer much in the way of features.  Video card choices are also limited.
>
> Wayne
>
 
 
How long have they been in business? What's their reputation among their  
customers?
 
That board is indeed pricey:  http://tinyurl.com/bwtn3  at $222.00.  Gets a  
buyer's 4 out of 5 stars, read the reviews.
 
The chipset is nearly identical (Intel 955) on the Dell board and the ASUS.
 
The XPS is a gamer/enthusiast box. If I'm dropping that kind of scratch for  
a gaming box, then I'm building it or having a very reputable local build it  
to my specs, as I want to be able to overclock and upgrade at my choosing -  
things either not possible with the Dell or limited.
 
Get the box built if you aren't building it yourself.  Just be *damned* sure  
of who you're dealing with, or you could wind up with an expensive toy and  
no long-term local support.
 
Stew

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <iNadnWQACfN0SXrfRVn-3g@wideopenwest.com>,  
1H8Comcast@anybodyelse.com says...
> While I do enjoy building my own machines and do from time to time, I  
> completely disagree with the concept that you can buy the same parts  
> which "will" perform better and will cost less.  By the time you factor  
> in all of the things needed (case, power supply, operating system, etc)  
> you cannot hardly buy a machine for less cost than a packaged system  
> like the Dell.
 
Then you don't know enough about buying parts and don't know where to  
get the best deals on quality parts.
 
> The thing I really like about Dell is that my computer is nearly silent.  
>   For me, this is a big deal.  My self built systems have always been  
> considerably louder.  In terms of name brand parts, my machine has them.  
 
It has nothing to do with Dell and hardly anything to do with any  
vendors systems - the PSU and FANs are controlled by the motherboard and  
the PSU sensor. If you want a quite system you just need a system that  
changes the speed of the fan based on temp and a fan that has RPM  
feedback. Each of the whitebox computers I've ordered/spec'd in the last  
two years have quite fan assemblies, it's very easy to spec if you  
understand what you are doing. Oh, and not all Dell systems are quite.
 
>   Even though it's a Dell, it has Intel processor (3.2ghz), Seagate Hard  
> Drive, ATI Radeon X800XT video card, 1GB of RAM (PC4200) and Sound  
> Blaster Audigy 2 ZS sound card.  I bought it with XP Pro and got a 17"  
> flat panel monitor and barely have over $1200 in the machine.
 
I bought a 3.2ghz P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 6 channel sound card, 1GB NIC,  
Windows XP Professional, Office 2003 Prof, 80GB SATA Drive, DVD+/-RW  
drive, keyboard, mouse, and a 256MB PCIx 8x video card (DVI and SVGA  
connectors/cables), in an Fancy case, 2 fans (speed controlled) and an  
nice Antec 500w PSU), without the monitor, delivered (including  
tax/shipping) for $1299. The 19" LCD panel we ordered was a nice unit,  
but it ran about $500 since we bought the higher end of the line we  
wanted, I could have got a 17" LCD without DVI connector for about $250.
 
>  In  
> February of 2005, you could not buy these parts and make it cheaper.  
> I'll bet you that my machine is quieter and can outperform anything hand  
> built for $1250 or less (office apps, gaming, compiling software, and  
> recompiling a linux kernel).
 
I bet you don't know what you are talking about - the above system is  
very close to the same price you paid (considering we also bought Office  
2003 Prof) and performs as well if not better.
 
Now, if you want to get into reality, it's always been easy to get the  
same hardware costs, but most of us buy better quality which costs a  
little more. The area that Dell gets most home builders is when it comes  
to Warranty and Software - but, if you look hard enough, you can get OEM  
software (which is what Dell provides) for the same reasonable price  
that Dell sells it to you for).
 
Oh, when it comes to higher-end systems, it's a BIG difference in cost.  
I can duplicate a Dual or Quad Xeon box with the same spec's, including  
the same rack-mount, and be about 1/3 the cost of a Dell - including the  
software.
 
--  
 
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <42e7d6fb.18333662@nntp.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @  
charter.net (Ben Myers) says...
> Right.  As a now very occasional builder of custom systems, I cannot even come
> close to Dell's street price for most configurations buying all the parts plus
> Windows from a distributor.  (For example, my distributor price for Windows is
> maybe $5 less than the retail store price.)  
 
You need to do more volume and find better OEM's to buy from. Did you  
know that you can easily become a MS OEM?
 
--  
 
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Um, this is a catch 22 situation.  I won't do volume business until I cut
prices, and I won't cut prices until I do volume business.  My distributor
charges maybe a buck or two more per item than the major disties, but barely
enough to reduce my total cost by a couple of percentage points by using another
distie.  If I stock up on some parts with the intention of building a number of
systems in the future, the parts are like fish.  They smell good when I get
them, but they begin to stink as time goes by and their value erodes when the
newer faster stuff inevitably comes on the market.  So buying in volume in
anticipation of customer orders is no solution either.  Price erosion kills any
advantage gained by buying in volume.
 
My customers are like everyone else's.  They shop on price, price and price.
And their 4th criterion is price.  And that's true of volume builds for SMBs.
The purchasing people squeeze your balls on price or terms of payment, or both.
 
The exceptions are those users who need a pretty specialized box.  On those I
can do just fine, so that's all I build... Ben Myers
 
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:35:37 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:
 
>In article <42e7d6fb.18333662@nntp.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @  
>charter.net (Ben Myers) says...
>> Right.  As a now very occasional builder of custom systems, I cannot even come
>> close to Dell's street price for most configurations buying all the parts plus
>> Windows from a distributor.  (For example, my distributor price for Windows is
>> maybe $5 less than the retail store price.)  
>
>You need to do more volume and find better OEM's to buy from. Did you  
>know that you can easily become a MS OEM?
>
>--  
>
>spam999free@rrohio.com
>remove 999 in order to email me

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <42e7e826.22729593@nntp.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @  
charter.net (Ben Myers) says...
> Um, this is a catch 22 situation.  I won't do volume business until I cut
> prices, and I won't cut prices until I do volume business.  My distributor
> charges maybe a buck or two more per item than the major disties, but barely
> enough to reduce my total cost by a couple of percentage points by using another
> distie.  If I stock up on some parts with the intention of building a number of
> systems in the future, the parts are like fish.  They smell good when I get
> them, but they begin to stink as time goes by and their value erodes when the
> newer faster stuff inevitably comes on the market.  So buying in volume in
> anticipation of customer orders is no solution either.  Price erosion kills any
> advantage gained by buying in volume.
>  
> My customers are like everyone else's.  They shop on price, price and price.
> And their 4th criterion is price.  And that's true of volume builds for SMBs.
> The purchasing people squeeze your balls on price or terms of payment, or both.
>  
> The exceptions are those users who need a pretty specialized box.  On those I
> can do just fine, so that's all I build... Ben Myers
 
Ben, I appreciate your situation, but there are places that will build  
the box, provide a warranty, and still be close to what Dell sells for.  
All you have to do is provide the spec and send them the order and they  
will drop ship the computer to the customer or your location.
 
email me some time and I'll send you my vendors information.
 
--  
 
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Leythos wrote:
> In article <iNadnWQACfN0SXrfRVn-3g@wideopenwest.com>,  
> 1H8Comcast@anybodyelse.com says...
>  
>>While I do enjoy building my own machines and do from time to time, I  
>>completely disagree with the concept that you can buy the same parts  
>>which "will" perform better and will cost less.  By the time you factor  
>>in all of the things needed (case, power supply, operating system, etc)  
>>you cannot hardly buy a machine for less cost than a packaged system  
>>like the Dell.
>  
>  
> Then you don't know enough about buying parts and don't know where to  
> get the best deals on quality parts.
>  
>  
>>The thing I really like about Dell is that my computer is nearly silent.  
>>  For me, this is a big deal.  My self built systems have always been  
>>considerably louder.  In terms of name brand parts, my machine has them.  
>  
>  
> It has nothing to do with Dell and hardly anything to do with any  
> vendors systems - the PSU and FANs are controlled by the motherboard and  
> the PSU sensor. If you want a quite system you just need a system that  
> changes the speed of the fan based on temp and a fan that has RPM  
> feedback. Each of the whitebox computers I've ordered/spec'd in the last  
> two years have quite fan assemblies, it's very easy to spec if you  
> understand what you are doing. Oh, and not all Dell systems are quite.
>  
>  
>>  Even though it's a Dell, it has Intel processor (3.2ghz), Seagate Hard  
>>Drive, ATI Radeon X800XT video card, 1GB of RAM (PC4200) and Sound  
>>Blaster Audigy 2 ZS sound card.  I bought it with XP Pro and got a 17"  
>>flat panel monitor and barely have over $1200 in the machine.
>  
>  
> I bought a 3.2ghz P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 6 channel sound card, 1GB NIC,  
> Windows XP Professional, Office 2003 Prof, 80GB SATA Drive, DVD+/-RW  
> drive, keyboard, mouse, and a 256MB PCIx 8x video card (DVI and SVGA  
> connectors/cables), in an Fancy case, 2 fans (speed controlled) and an  
> nice Antec 500w PSU), without the monitor, delivered (including  
> tax/shipping) for $1299. The 19" LCD panel we ordered was a nice unit,  
> but it ran about $500 since we bought the higher end of the line we  
> wanted, I could have got a 17" LCD without DVI connector for about $250.
>  
>  
>> In  
>>February of 2005, you could not buy these parts and make it cheaper.  
>>I'll bet you that my machine is quieter and can outperform anything hand  
>>built for $1250 or less (office apps, gaming, compiling software, and  
>>recompiling a linux kernel).
>  
>  
> I bet you don't know what you are talking about - the above system is  
> very close to the same price you paid (considering we also bought Office  
> 2003 Prof) and performs as well if not better.
>  
> Now, if you want to get into reality, it's always been easy to get the  
> same hardware costs, but most of us buy better quality which costs a  
> little more. The area that Dell gets most home builders is when it comes  
> to Warranty and Software - but, if you look hard enough, you can get OEM  
> software (which is what Dell provides) for the same reasonable price  
> that Dell sells it to you for).
>  
> Oh, when it comes to higher-end systems, it's a BIG difference in cost.  
> I can duplicate a Dual or Quad Xeon box with the same spec's, including  
> the same rack-mount, and be about 1/3 the cost of a Dell - including the  
> software.
>  
 
 
Couple of thoughts (with regards to my not knowing any better)
 
1.  You mention a 6 channel sound card.  A lot of motherboards can do 6  
channel sound.  I just checked Newegg and you "can" get a 6 channel PCI  
sound card for $7.49.  I specifically said a genuine Sound Blaster  
Audigy 2 ZS.
 
2.  I realize that Newegg is not the absolute cheapest company in the  
world....but they are competitive.  A legit copy of Office 2003 Pro for  
OEM is nearly $300.  A legit copy of Windows XP Pro OEM is nearly $150.  
    So, if this was $450 of your $1299, that means the rest of the  
computer parts only cost you $849.  I'm sure you will come back with  
some ridiculous low price for those two peices of software, but if you  
certainly buy from a legit outfit, you are gonna pay closer to what I  
quoted above, unless you buy in MASS quantities, which the average joe  
just isn't going to do.
 
3.  The cost of hard drives isn't much, but my hard drive was 160GB  
versus the 80 that you mentioned.  Again, not much of a difference here.
 
4.  You mention a 256MB PCIx 8x video card with AGP and DVI.  If you are  
truly a computer guy, or a gamer, you must know "as I do" that a video  
card is not just a video card.  I specifically said an ATI Radeon X800XT  
256MB PCIx video card.  This card alone is gonna set you back $400 or  
so.  I'll happily challenge you video wish to a generic card with 256MB  
RAM and absolutely blow your doors off.
 
5.  I did forget that my system came with a 8x DVD reader and a DVD+/-RW  
supporting dual formats.  Again, these things are both very cheap.
 
6.  You mention a PCI Express 8X video card.  Could you please explain  
what you mean by the 8x?  For somebody who doesn't know what they are  
talking about, I do know that the 4x/8x ratings are for AGP video cards,  
not PCI Express.
 
7.  With regards to fan noise, while the power supply does make a  
difference to overall fan noise, my Dell is quiet because they don't  
have to use a fan on the motherboard chipset or the CPU.  Dell strictly  
uses a cooling tower on the P4 @ 3.2.  All self built systems usually  
are bought with clunky loud fans.  Granted, better fans are totally  
available, if you are trying to build a system cheap, you aren't  
investing $50+ for a CPU cooler.
 
8.  I agree, most people do buy nicer hardware and it does cost more.  
My point was that the Dell I spec'd out, did have nice hardware.  
Genuine Sound Blaster Audigy 2, a seagate hard drive, an ATI Radeon  
X800XT.  The system you gave me specs on just said 6 channel sound and a  
some video card with 256MB of RAM.  Like I said, I would be more than  
happy to benchmark against you.  Go out and run something like SiSoft  
Sandra or 3dmark 2005 and give me your numbers.
 
9.  Any of the Dell desktops that I have used in the last two years are  
very quiet.  I have Optiplex GX150's, Optiplex GX260's, GX270's and  
GX280's, as well as Dimension 4550's, 4600's and 8400's which are all  
nearly silent.  The cooling fan on my video card is the loudest part of  
these systems.   If you are talking about Dell servers........well then  
servers should NOT be quiet.  They need cooling and quiet performance  
should not even be a consideration on a server.  I'm talking strictly  
desktops.
 
With regards to high-end equipment;
 
I never made a mention of server equipment....manufacturers versus  
building your own.   I work in a server environment and we have approx  
350 rack mount servers.  All Compaq/HP and IBM's.  With servers, you pay  
for service.  We have 4 hour or faster response time on everything we  
own.  For us, downtime means lost revenue.  Handbuilding a server with  
commodity parts is just not worth the risk to our business.  And I can  
count on 1 hand the number of HP Proliant DL 380 Gen 1, Gen2, Gen3 and  
Gen 4's that we have had fail in the past 3 years.  We might be paying  
more than we have to, but these things are rock/solid stable.
 
 
 
I just like trying to set the record staight for people who read these  
forums.  While I agree you can build a great computer and get exactly  
what you want for a decent price, it's hard if not nearly impossible to  
beat the deals that Dell has to offer.  It's not fair to slam a Dell  
simply because it is a Dell.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

HarryKrause wrote:
> Here's something to ponder:
>  
> I've been considering an XPS Gen 5.
>  
> Now I've found a reliable box builder offering up a computer with
> very similar features and capabilities, but built on an Asus P5WD2
> Premium motherboard. This is one of Asus' top of the line "dual core"
> motherboards, built around the Intel chipset and with a number of  
> features NOT found on the "Dell" motherboards (and I have no idea who is  
> making the Dell motherboards these days).
>  
> The prices are about the same, maybe $100 different for very similarly  
> equipped units, and this includes Dell's current steep discount on the  
> XPS 5. But the non-Dell machine has a steel and aluminum Coolermaster  
> case, a 550-watt power supply, a three-year warranty (without having a  
> call sent off to a call center in India), and includes a full retail box  
> version of your choice of Windoze operating system.
>  
> I've had Asus-based machines before. In fact, I am using one now.
>  
> Advice?
 
 
Generally speaking, I think that Dell overprices the XPS systems.  They  
are getting the premium from gamers that are willing to pay the extras  
for small increases in benchmark scoring.
 
Asus is my favorite motherboard and always has been.  In my opinion, you  
really can't to wrong with an Asus.
 
Power supplies are tricky.  Most people tend to overlook the "quality"  
of the power supply and look at the wattage.  People do the same thing  
with stereo/home theater equipment as well.  100 watts per channel must  
be better than 70 watts per channel, right?   Just be sure that the  
custom built system has a "quiet" and "reliable" power supply.  Just  
because it claims 550 watts, doesn't mean it performs as well.  
Technically speaking, Dell always underrates their power supplies.  My  
Dimension 4550 has a 250 watt power supply, but this thing could supply  
250 watts in the arizona desert while under water.  They were extremely  
conservative with the power ratings.
 
How can you be sure that the system support will actually be there in 3  
years?  You might not be calling India today, but you might start tomorrow.
 
In my opinion, I would much rather get the OEM version of Windows XP Pro  
from Dell versus the full retail.  You want to know why?    Because I do  
NOT have to activate the damn thing.  I format and reload very often (I  
play with Linux very heavily and change hardware very often).  The  
activation process of the XP Retail copy is just an absolute drag.  
ANybody who has actually gone through it will agree with me.
 
Just my $0.02.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Patrick L. Parks wrote:
> Leythos wrote:
>> In article <iNadnWQACfN0SXrfRVn-3g@wideopenwest.com>,  
>> 1H8Comcast@anybodyelse.com says...
>>
>>> While I do enjoy building my own machines and do from time to time, I  
>>> completely disagree with the concept that you can buy the same parts  
>>> which "will" perform better and will cost less.  By the time you  
>>> factor in all of the things needed (case, power supply, operating  
>>> system, etc) you cannot hardly buy a machine for less cost than a  
>>> packaged system like the Dell.
>>
>>
>> Then you don't know enough about buying parts and don't know where to  
>> get the best deals on quality parts.
>>
>>
>>> The thing I really like about Dell is that my computer is nearly  
>>> silent.  For me, this is a big deal.  My self built systems have  
>>> always been considerably louder.  In terms of name brand parts, my  
>>> machine has them.  
>>
>>
>> It has nothing to do with Dell and hardly anything to do with any  
>> vendors systems - the PSU and FANs are controlled by the motherboard  
>> and the PSU sensor. If you want a quite system you just need a system  
>> that changes the speed of the fan based on temp and a fan that has RPM  
>> feedback. Each of the whitebox computers I've ordered/spec'd in the  
>> last two years have quite fan assemblies, it's very easy to spec if  
>> you understand what you are doing. Oh, and not all Dell systems are  
>> quite.
>>
>>
>>>  Even though it's a Dell, it has Intel processor (3.2ghz), Seagate  
>>> Hard Drive, ATI Radeon X800XT video card, 1GB of RAM (PC4200) and  
>>> Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS sound card.  I bought it with XP Pro and  
>>> got a 17" flat panel monitor and barely have over $1200 in the machine.
>>
>>
>> I bought a 3.2ghz P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 6 channel sound card, 1GB NIC,  
>> Windows XP Professional, Office 2003 Prof, 80GB SATA Drive, DVD+/-RW  
>> drive, keyboard, mouse, and a 256MB PCIx 8x video card (DVI and SVGA  
>> connectors/cables), in an Fancy case, 2 fans (speed controlled) and an  
>> nice Antec 500w PSU), without the monitor, delivered (including  
>> tax/shipping) for $1299. The 19" LCD panel we ordered was a nice unit,  
>> but it ran about $500 since we bought the higher end of the line we  
>> wanted, I could have got a 17" LCD without DVI connector for about $250.
>>
>>
>>> In February of 2005, you could not buy these parts and make it  
>>> cheaper. I'll bet you that my machine is quieter and can outperform  
>>> anything hand built for $1250 or less (office apps, gaming, compiling  
>>> software, and recompiling a linux kernel).
>>
>>
>> I bet you don't know what you are talking about - the above system is  
>> very close to the same price you paid (considering we also bought  
>> Office 2003 Prof) and performs as well if not better.
>>
>> Now, if you want to get into reality, it's always been easy to get the  
>> same hardware costs, but most of us buy better quality which costs a  
>> little more. The area that Dell gets most home builders is when it  
>> comes to Warranty and Software - but, if you look hard enough, you can  
>> get OEM software (which is what Dell provides) for the same reasonable  
>> price that Dell sells it to you for).
>>
>> Oh, when it comes to higher-end systems, it's a BIG difference in  
>> cost. I can duplicate a Dual or Quad Xeon box with the same spec's,  
>> including the same rack-mount, and be about 1/3 the cost of a Dell -  
>> including the software.
>>
>  
>  
> Couple of thoughts (with regards to my not knowing any better)
>  
> 1.  You mention a 6 channel sound card.  A lot of motherboards can do 6  
> channel sound.  I just checked Newegg and you "can" get a 6 channel PCI  
> sound card for $7.49.  I specifically said a genuine Sound Blaster  
> Audigy 2 ZS.
>  
> 2.  I realize that Newegg is not the absolute cheapest company in the  
> world....but they are competitive.  A legit copy of Office 2003 Pro for  
> OEM is nearly $300.  A legit copy of Windows XP Pro OEM is nearly $150.  
>    So, if this was $450 of your $1299, that means the rest of the  
> computer parts only cost you $849.  I'm sure you will come back with  
> some ridiculous low price for those two peices of software, but if you  
> certainly buy from a legit outfit, you are gonna pay closer to what I  
> quoted above, unless you buy in MASS quantities, which the average joe  
> just isn't going to do.
>  
> 3.  The cost of hard drives isn't much, but my hard drive was 160GB  
> versus the 80 that you mentioned.  Again, not much of a difference here.
>  
> 4.  You mention a 256MB PCIx 8x video card with AGP and DVI.  If you are  
> truly a computer guy, or a gamer, you must know "as I do" that a video  
> card is not just a video card.  I specifically said an ATI Radeon X800XT  
> 256MB PCIx video card.  This card alone is gonna set you back $400 or  
> so.  I'll happily challenge you video wish to a generic card with 256MB  
> RAM and absolutely blow your doors off.
>  
> 5.  I did forget that my system came with a 8x DVD reader and a DVD+/-RW  
> supporting dual formats.  Again, these things are both very cheap.
>  
> 6.  You mention a PCI Express 8X video card.  Could you please explain  
> what you mean by the 8x?  For somebody who doesn't know what they are  
> talking about, I do know that the 4x/8x ratings are for AGP video cards,  
> not PCI Express.
>  
> 7.  With regards to fan noise, while the power supply does make a  
> difference to overall fan noise, my Dell is quiet because they don't  
> have to use a fan on the motherboard chipset or the CPU.  Dell strictly  
> uses a cooling tower on the P4 @ 3.2.  All self built systems usually  
> are bought with clunky loud fans.  Granted, better fans are totally  
> available, if you are trying to build a system cheap, you aren't  
> investing $50+ for a CPU cooler.
>  
> 8.  I agree, most people do buy nicer hardware and it does cost more. My  
> point was that the Dell I spec'd out, did have nice hardware. Genuine  
> Sound Blaster Audigy 2, a seagate hard drive, an ATI Radeon X800XT.  The  
> system you gave me specs on just said 6 channel sound and a some video  
> card with 256MB of RAM.  Like I said, I would be more than happy to  
> benchmark against you.  Go out and run something like SiSoft Sandra or  
> 3dmark 2005 and give me your numbers.
>  
> 9.  Any of the Dell desktops that I have used in the last two years are  
> very quiet.  I have Optiplex GX150's, Optiplex GX260's, GX270's and  
> GX280's, as well as Dimension 4550's, 4600's and 8400's which are all  
> nearly silent.  The cooling fan on my video card is the loudest part of  
> these systems.   If you are talking about Dell servers........well then  
> servers should NOT be quiet.  They need cooling and quiet performance  
> should not even be a consideration on a server.  I'm talking strictly  
> desktops.
>  
> With regards to high-end equipment;
>  
> I never made a mention of server equipment....manufacturers versus  
> building your own.   I work in a server environment and we have approx  
> 350 rack mount servers.  All Compaq/HP and IBM's.  With servers, you pay  
> for service.  We have 4 hour or faster response time on everything we  
> own.  For us, downtime means lost revenue.  Handbuilding a server with  
> commodity parts is just not worth the risk to our business.  And I can  
> count on 1 hand the number of HP Proliant DL 380 Gen 1, Gen2, Gen3 and  
> Gen 4's that we have had fail in the past 3 years.  We might be paying  
> more than we have to, but these things are rock/solid stable.
>  
>  
>  
> I just like trying to set the record staight for people who read these  
> forums.  While I agree you can build a great computer and get exactly  
> what you want for a decent price, it's hard if not nearly impossible to  
> beat the deals that Dell has to offer.  It's not fair to slam a Dell  
> simply because it is a Dell.
 
 
I just got this quote for a system I am considering along with the xps 5:
 
Monarch Versall Custom Desktop w/DDR2          1                 $59.00
Case: 100621 - No PS - Lian-Li PC-61 Aluminum Case (Black  
        $115.00
 
Power Supply: 100122 - PS 535W - Enermax EG565P-FMA  REV.2.0 ATX  
         $89.00
 
Motherboard: 110517 - Asus P5WD2 Premium 955x Audio/GB-LAN/IEEE  
       $219.00
 
Processor: 120316 - Intel P4 650 3.4GHz LGA775 2MB 800 FSB  Retail  
         $414.00
 
Thermal Grease: 800018 - Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease (Cools CPU  
          $14.00
 
Memory: 140313 - DDR2 (667) 5400 - 1 GB (2 pcs 512) Corsair  
  $163.00
 
Hard Drive: 150239 - SATA - Western Digital (WD740GD) 74 GB/10  
      $175.00
 
 
CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW: 160499 - CD-RW - Plextor PX Premium/SW-BL 52X32X52  
                $99.00
 
 
Floppy Drive: 170108 - Mitsumi Floppy 7-in-1 USB Card Reader/Sma  
         $25.00
 
Video Card: 190671 - ATI (Sapphire) Radeon X850 XT 256MB DDR3/  
      $390.00
 
Operating System: 210111 - Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/Service  
Pack 2 Retail
$150.00
 
Warranty: 800012 - 1 Year - Parts & Labor - Plus $15.00  
$15.00
 
 
CD-RW Software: 210613 - Ahead Nero 6.3 Suite DVD+-RW Software (OE  
            $6.99
 
DVD-ROM Software: 210601 - Cyberlink PowerDVD 6.0 (OEM)  
$6.99         $6.99
 
 
Total:     $1,940.98
 
Three day delivery to my zip code is $50.
 
 
 
Very very competitive with Dell, similarly equipped.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Patrick L. Parks wrote:
> HarryKrause wrote:
>> Here's something to ponder:
>>
>> I've been considering an XPS Gen 5.
>>
>> Now I've found a reliable box builder offering up a computer with
>> very similar features and capabilities, but built on an Asus P5WD2
>> Premium motherboard. This is one of Asus' top of the line "dual core"
>> motherboards, built around the Intel chipset and with a number of  
>> features NOT found on the "Dell" motherboards (and I have no idea who  
>> is making the Dell motherboards these days).
>>
>> The prices are about the same, maybe $100 different for very similarly  
>> equipped units, and this includes Dell's current steep discount on the  
>> XPS 5. But the non-Dell machine has a steel and aluminum Coolermaster  
>> case, a 550-watt power supply, a three-year warranty (without having a  
>> call sent off to a call center in India), and includes a full retail  
>> box version of your choice of Windoze operating system.
>>
>> I've had Asus-based machines before. In fact, I am using one now.
>>
>> Advice?
>  
>  
> Generally speaking, I think that Dell overprices the XPS systems.  They  
> are getting the premium from gamers that are willing to pay the extras  
> for small increases in benchmark scoring.
>  
> Asus is my favorite motherboard and always has been.  In my opinion, you  
> really can't to wrong with an Asus.
>  
> Power supplies are tricky.  Most people tend to overlook the "quality"  
> of the power supply and look at the wattage.  People do the same thing  
> with stereo/home theater equipment as well.  100 watts per channel must  
> be better than 70 watts per channel, right?   Just be sure that the  
> custom built system has a "quiet" and "reliable" power supply.  Just  
> because it claims 550 watts, doesn't mean it performs as well.  
> Technically speaking, Dell always underrates their power supplies.  My  
> Dimension 4550 has a 250 watt power supply, but this thing could supply  
> 250 watts in the arizona desert while under water.  They were extremely  
> conservative with the power ratings.
>  
> How can you be sure that the system support will actually be there in 3  
> years?  You might not be calling India today, but you might start tomorrow.
>  
> In my opinion, I would much rather get the OEM version of Windows XP Pro  
> from Dell versus the full retail.  You want to know why?    Because I do  
> NOT have to activate the damn thing.  I format and reload very often (I  
> play with Linux very heavily and change hardware very often).  The  
> activation process of the XP Retail copy is just an absolute drag.  
> ANybody who has actually gone through it will agree with me.
>  
> Just my $0.02.
 
 
Where do you log on for your OS fixes and upgrades if you don't  
activate? Dell?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"HarryKrause" <harry.krause@gmail.com> wrote in message  
newsd2dnaswrNwAZXrfRVn-qA@comcast.com...
> Patrick L. Parks wrote:
>> HarryKrause wrote:
>>> Here's something to ponder:
>>>
>>> I've been considering an XPS Gen 5.
>>>
>>> Now I've found a reliable box builder offering up a computer with
>>> very similar features and capabilities, but built on an Asus P5WD2
>>> Premium motherboard. This is one of Asus' top of the line "dual core"
>>> motherboards, built around the Intel chipset and with a number of  
>>> features NOT found on the "Dell" motherboards (and I have no idea who is  
>>> making the Dell motherboards these days).
>>>
>>> The prices are about the same, maybe $100 different for very similarly  
>>> equipped units, and this includes Dell's current steep discount on the  
>>> XPS 5. But the non-Dell machine has a steel and aluminum Coolermaster  
>>> case, a 550-watt power supply, a three-year warranty (without having a  
>>> call sent off to a call center in India), and includes a full retail box  
>>> version of your choice of Windoze operating system.
>>>
>>> I've had Asus-based machines before. In fact, I am using one now.
>>>
>>> Advice?
>>
>>
>> Generally speaking, I think that Dell overprices the XPS systems.  They  
>> are getting the premium from gamers that are willing to pay the extras  
>> for small increases in benchmark scoring.
>>
>> Asus is my favorite motherboard and always has been.  In my opinion, you  
>> really can't to wrong with an Asus.
>>
>> Power supplies are tricky.  Most people tend to overlook the "quality" of  
>> the power supply and look at the wattage.  People do the same thing with  
>> stereo/home theater equipment as well.  100 watts per channel must be  
>> better than 70 watts per channel, right?   Just be sure that the custom  
>> built system has a "quiet" and "reliable" power supply.  Just because it  
>> claims 550 watts, doesn't mean it performs as well. Technically speaking,  
>> Dell always underrates their power supplies.  My Dimension 4550 has a 250  
>> watt power supply, but this thing could supply 250 watts in the arizona  
>> desert while under water.  They were extremely conservative with the  
>> power ratings.
>>
>> How can you be sure that the system support will actually be there in 3  
>> years?  You might not be calling India today, but you might start  
>> tomorrow.
>>
>> In my opinion, I would much rather get the OEM version of Windows XP Pro  
>> from Dell versus the full retail.  You want to know why?    Because I do  
>> NOT have to activate the damn thing.  I format and reload very often (I  
>> play with Linux very heavily and change hardware very often).  The  
>> activation process of the XP Retail copy is just an absolute drag.  
>> ANybody who has actually gone through it will agree with me.
>>
>> Just my $0.02.
>
>
> Where do you log on for your OS fixes and upgrades if you don't activate?  
> Dell?
 
Well, that's controversial.  Up until MS's recent change, Dell's required no  
activation but worked fine with WindowsUpdate.
 
I don't know the details, but that's going to cange.
 
Tom

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <EsKdnTRoAIx1bnrfRVn-3w@wideopenwest.com>,  
1H8Comcast@anybodyelse.com says...
> With regards to high-end equipment;
>  
> I never made a mention of server equipment....manufacturers versus  
> building your own.   I work in a server environment and we have approx  
> 350 rack mount servers.  All Compaq/HP and IBM's.  With servers, you pay  
> for service.  We have 4 hour or faster response time on everything we  
> own.  For us, downtime means lost revenue.  Handbuilding a server with  
> commodity parts is just not worth the risk to our business.  And I can  
> count on 1 hand the number of HP Proliant DL 380 Gen 1, Gen2, Gen3 and  
> Gen 4's that we have had fail in the past 3 years.  We might be paying  
> more than we have to, but these things are rock/solid stable.
 
And there is no difference between your Dell/HP and one I can build for  
less than half from parts - in fact, the only difference is the warranty  
in most cases. Also, for less than half the cost I can afford to have a  
spare server on hand, fully setup and ready or for parts. In the case of  
many of our server farms, with 12~25 servers, we have a number of Dell  
6600 series that are also duplicated by white-box servers with the same  
level of parts/performance and cost about 30% of what the Dell's did -  
which has saved the development teams a lot of money.
 
I have several Proliant Dual CPU servers in my home, and they are very  
loud, but that was a choice based on the vendors design, not a technical  
requirement - I have Dual and Quad servers that move just as much air  
and are whisper quiet.
 
I have one Dual P3/933 server build on an ASUS motherboard, running an 8  
drive array on one channel and