Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
on usenet already.

I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
have.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

You have 21 days from invoice date to return it. Get a 4700 or better.

"FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1117742902.763366.125820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
> replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
> Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
> graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
> machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
> isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
> or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
> on usenet already.
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1117742902.763366.125820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
> replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
> Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
> graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
> machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
> isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
> or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
> on usenet already.
>
> I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
> adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
> Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
> conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
> comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
> have.
>

Well, I run a 128MB nVidia PCI card in my 2400 and it works fine. I don't do
games, though, just did it for compatibility with Snapstream's Beyond TV.

As for Dell's wisdom, it seems spot on to me. Entry level machine at entry
level pricing.

Another option, depending on your timing, is to return the machine. You
have 21 days from the invoice date. Return it and order a 4700 or 8400.
Consider a refurb from outlet.dell.com to stay in the price range.

Tom

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On 2 Jun 2005 13:08:22 -0700, "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote:

>My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
>replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
>Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
>graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
>machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
>isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
>or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
>on usenet already.
>
>I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
>adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
>Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
>conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
>comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
>have.


I installed a Nivdia PCI FX5200 128 Meg card in my Dimension 2400 for
the same reason. Not a whole lot of improvement, and in just a hair
over a year, the car by PNY with a Lifetime Guarantee is out of
warranty. The reason is that PCI stuff is obsolete as far as high
end video cards go. Send the PC back and get something with a PCI
Express Card or bus.

Bob

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture". Not exactly. The Dimension 3000 is a
low-end computer, so it has only on-board graphics with no AGP slot. The
Dimension 4000-series and 8000-series are more expensive and they have AGP
slots. Still, Intel's Extreme Graphics is pretty good, except for gaming.

.... Ben Myers

On 2 Jun 2005 13:08:22 -0700, "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote:

>My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
>replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
>Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
>graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
>machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
>isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
>or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
>on usenet already.
>
>I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
>adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
>Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
>conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
>comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
>have.
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

FatKat wrote:
> My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
> replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
> Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
> graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
> machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
> isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
> or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
> on usenet already.
>
> I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
> adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
> Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
> conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
> comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
> have.
>
I have put a Radeon 7000 PCI 64 meg graphics card in my 3000 and haven't
met with a great deal of success. First off I had to install the Radeon
card in the machine but still connect the monitor up to the itegrated
onboard card to get something to display. Once i had done that I got
into device manager and disenabled the onboard graphics. Then I
connected the monitor up to the newly installed PCI card and re-booted
the pc. Upon rebooting the new Radeon card did its thing and the display
worked. Also I noticed after the reboot that the integrated garaphics
that I had disabled was now enabled and now both graphics cards are
enabled and don't conflict with each other.
I have to say though if I had the option I would return the machine and
upgrade to one that has PCIe as although the Radeon card is working it
aint working as well as it should.
Hope this helps
ricardo

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

the chaintech Geforce FX5200 128MB 128-bit DDR is an excellent 128mb
card for $70 for a pci slot.
write me if you have any specific ques about it.

i bought mine at newegg.com but also found at a few other sites.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814145055


i would send back that 3000 computer because for $50 more, you could get
the 4700 model with better graphic support, faster memory, and faster
hard drives!!!

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:28:24 -0400, Jay B <jayb@audiman.net> wrote:

>the chaintech Geforce FX5200 128MB 128-bit DDR is an excellent 128mb
>card for $70 for a pci slot.
>write me if you have any specific ques about it.
>
>i bought mine at newegg.com but also found at a few other sites.
>
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814145055
>
>
>i would send back that 3000 computer because for $50 more, you could get
>the 4700 model with better graphic support, faster memory, and faster
>hard drives!!!


The problem with a PCI bus card ( not PCI express) is that the PCI bus
has a real limiting factor on how fast you can process your graphics.
So no matter how good the card is, it will choke on the bus. Like
running a 6" water main into a piece of 1/4" copper tubing and then
into your house.

Bob

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

ricardo wrote:
> FatKat wrote:
> > My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
> > replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
> > Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
> > graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
> > machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
> > isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
> > or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
> > on usenet already.
> >
> > I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
> > adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
> > Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
> > conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
> > comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
> > have.
> >
> I have put a Radeon 7000 PCI 64 meg graphics card in my 3000 and haven't
> met with a great deal of success.

>From what I've seen around here, you're not likely to seen any
improvement unless you use a 128 meg card. The FX 5700 LE seems to be
the card of choice according to CW. Anything less than 128 won't be
enough, while more than 128 meg won't get past the bottleneck of the
PCI bus. man, to think that a 12 meg 3DFx card was once the most I had
to look forward to.

> First off I had to install the Radeon
> card in the machine but still connect the monitor up to the itegrated
> onboard card to get something to display. Once i had done that I got
> into device manager and disenabled the onboard graphics. Then I
> connected the monitor up to the newly installed PCI card and re-booted
> the pc.

This is what I don't understand. The original 3D cards weren't
supposed to replace your existing graphics hardware - just augment it.
So instead of messing with jumper settings or mess with the device
manager, you just use a pass-through cable. When I put in my Monster
Voodoo2, it was auto-detected immediately. I thought that was the
saving grace of PCI - data-transfer would never match AGP, but what you
put in was taken in seamlessly. I would have thought that that fact
remained as true 5 years later - but then again, I'm still getting over
the fact that my brand new computer has less upgradability than the one
I got in 2001. What's next? A stereo deck with an 8-track? Cars w/o
power doors and locks?

> Upon rebooting the new Radeon card did its thing and the display
> worked. Also I noticed after the reboot that the integrated garaphics
> that I had disabled was now enabled and now both graphics cards are
> enabled and don't conflict with each other.

Which doesn't suprise me. I've got an extra sound card on my board - I
haven't got the sound to work yet, but the game port seems to function
as advertized.

> I have to say though if I had the option I would return the machine and
> upgrade to one that has PCIe as although the Radeon card is working it
> aint working as well as it should.
> Hope this helps
> ricardo

Thanks for the response. Good luck whatever you decide.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1118091667.799433.196960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> ricardo wrote:
>> FatKat wrote:
>> > My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
>> > replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
>> > Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
>> > graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
>> > machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
>> > isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
>> > or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
>> > on usenet already.
>> >
>> > I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
>> > adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
>> > Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
>> > conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
>> > comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
>> > have.
>> >
>> I have put a Radeon 7000 PCI 64 meg graphics card in my 3000 and haven't
>> met with a great deal of success.
>
>>From what I've seen around here, you're not likely to seen any
> improvement unless you use a 128 meg card. The FX 5700 LE seems to be
> the card of choice according to CW. Anything less than 128 won't be
> enough, while more than 128 meg won't get past the bottleneck of the
> PCI bus. man, to think that a 12 meg 3DFx card was once the most I had
> to look forward to.
>
>> First off I had to install the Radeon
>> card in the machine but still connect the monitor up to the itegrated
>> onboard card to get something to display. Once i had done that I got
>> into device manager and disenabled the onboard graphics. Then I
>> connected the monitor up to the newly installed PCI card and re-booted
>> the pc.
>
> This is what I don't understand. The original 3D cards weren't
> supposed to replace your existing graphics hardware - just augment it.
> So instead of messing with jumper settings or mess with the device
> manager, you just use a pass-through cable. When I put in my Monster
> Voodoo2, it was auto-detected immediately. I thought that was the
> saving grace of PCI - data-transfer would never match AGP, but what you
> put in was taken in seamlessly. I would have thought that that fact
> remained as true 5 years later - but then again, I'm still getting over
> the fact that my brand new computer has less upgradability than the one
> I got in 2001. What's next? A stereo deck with an 8-track? Cars w/o
> power doors and locks?
>
>> Upon rebooting the new Radeon card did its thing and the display
>> worked. Also I noticed after the reboot that the integrated garaphics
>> that I had disabled was now enabled and now both graphics cards are
>> enabled and don't conflict with each other.
>
> Which doesn't suprise me. I've got an extra sound card on my board - I
> haven't got the sound to work yet, but the game port seems to function
> as advertized.
>
>> I have to say though if I had the option I would return the machine and
>> upgrade to one that has PCIe as although the Radeon card is working it
>> aint working as well as it should.
>> Hope this helps
>> ricardo
>
> Thanks for the response. Good luck whatever you decide.
>

I'm confused. If you have a 1999 BMW and then buy a 2005 Hyundai, then
you're going backwards with a newer car.

If you buy a Dimension 2400 or 3000, you bought a Hyundai -- perhaps
reliable transportation, but no BMW.

If you wanted a PCIe slot, then a 4700 or an 8400 or an XPS were all
available to you. Sorry you made a bad choice.

Tom

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:12:31 GMT, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
wrote:

>
>"FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
>news:1118091667.799433.196960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> ricardo wrote:
>>> FatKat wrote:
>>> > My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
>>> > replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
>>> > Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
>>> > graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
>>> > machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
>>> > isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
>>> > or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
>>> > on usenet already.
>>> >
>>> > I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
>>> > adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
>>> > Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
>>> > conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
>>> > comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
>>> > have.
>>> >
>>> I have put a Radeon 7000 PCI 64 meg graphics card in my 3000 and haven't
>>> met with a great deal of success.
>>
>>>From what I've seen around here, you're not likely to seen any
>> improvement unless you use a 128 meg card. The FX 5700 LE seems to be
>> the card of choice according to CW. Anything less than 128 won't be
>> enough, while more than 128 meg won't get past the bottleneck of the
>> PCI bus. man, to think that a 12 meg 3DFx card was once the most I had
>> to look forward to.
>>
>>> First off I had to install the Radeon
>>> card in the machine but still connect the monitor up to the itegrated
>>> onboard card to get something to display. Once i had done that I got
>>> into device manager and disenabled the onboard graphics. Then I
>>> connected the monitor up to the newly installed PCI card and re-booted
>>> the pc.
>>
>> This is what I don't understand. The original 3D cards weren't
>> supposed to replace your existing graphics hardware - just augment it.
>> So instead of messing with jumper settings or mess with the device
>> manager, you just use a pass-through cable. When I put in my Monster
>> Voodoo2, it was auto-detected immediately. I thought that was the
>> saving grace of PCI - data-transfer would never match AGP, but what you
>> put in was taken in seamlessly. I would have thought that that fact
>> remained as true 5 years later - but then again, I'm still getting over
>> the fact that my brand new computer has less upgradability than the one
>> I got in 2001. What's next? A stereo deck with an 8-track? Cars w/o
>> power doors and locks?
>>
>>> Upon rebooting the new Radeon card did its thing and the display
>>> worked. Also I noticed after the reboot that the integrated garaphics
>>> that I had disabled was now enabled and now both graphics cards are
>>> enabled and don't conflict with each other.
>>
>> Which doesn't suprise me. I've got an extra sound card on my board - I
>> haven't got the sound to work yet, but the game port seems to function
>> as advertized.
>>
>>> I have to say though if I had the option I would return the machine and
>>> upgrade to one that has PCIe as although the Radeon card is working it
>>> aint working as well as it should.
>>> Hope this helps
>>> ricardo
>>
>> Thanks for the response. Good luck whatever you decide.
>>
>
>I'm confused. If you have a 1999 BMW and then buy a 2005 Hyundai, then
>you're going backwards with a newer car.
>
>If you buy a Dimension 2400 or 3000, you bought a Hyundai -- perhaps
>reliable transportation, but no BMW.
>
>If you wanted a PCIe slot, then a 4700 or an 8400 or an XPS were all
>available to you. Sorry you made a bad choice.
>
>Tom
>

One difference in the Hyundai vs BMW, the BMW is much more likely to
break down and need service.... Per extensive Consumer reports poll
of owners of the 2 vehicle brands.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Capt Bob" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2im9a11d6bc67iubnfn2cb1kp5u7duu9rj@4ax.com...

> One difference in the Hyundai vs BMW, the BMW is much more likely to
> break down and need service.... Per extensive Consumer reports poll
> of owners of the 2 vehicle brands.

Perhaps, although my 1999 BMW has been pretty reliable.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Tom Scales wrote:
> "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:1118091667.799433.196960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > ricardo wrote:
> >> FatKat wrote:
> >> > My dad, a great guy sometimes overwhelmed by computers, went out and
> >> > replaced my broken down 2 gig P4 system with 3GHz Dimension 3000.
> >> > Unfortunately, it looks like the new machine has less potential for
> >> > graphics upgrade than the machine it replaced - itself a 3.5 year old
> >> > machine - lacking both the new PCI-e slot or the old AGP slot. This
> >> > isn't a post about the wisdom of Dell's restrictive MoBo architecture,
> >> > or the agony of integrated graphics or sound. There's plenty of that
> >> > on usenet already.
> >> >
> >> > I simply want to know if anybody's had any reasonable degree of luck
> >> > adding some high end PCI graphics card to their non AGP/PCI-e machine.
> >> > Will PCI cards provide any improvement over "Intel Extreme"? Will they
> >> > conflict with the on-board graphics set? I'm not expecting something
> >> > comparable to AGP, but I'd like to know I can exceed what I already
> >> > have.
> >> >
> >> I have put a Radeon 7000 PCI 64 meg graphics card in my 3000 and haven't
> >> met with a great deal of success.
> >
> >>From what I've seen around here, you're not likely to seen any
> > improvement unless you use a 128 meg card. The FX 5700 LE seems to be
> > the card of choice according to CW. Anything less than 128 won't be
> > enough, while more than 128 meg won't get past the bottleneck of the
> > PCI bus. man, to think that a 12 meg 3DFx card was once the most I had
> > to look forward to.
> >
> >> First off I had to install the Radeon
> >> card in the machine but still connect the monitor up to the itegrated
> >> onboard card to get something to display. Once i had done that I got
> >> into device manager and disenabled the onboard graphics. Then I
> >> connected the monitor up to the newly installed PCI card and re-booted
> >> the pc.
> >
> > This is what I don't understand. The original 3D cards weren't
> > supposed to replace your existing graphics hardware - just augment it.
> > So instead of messing with jumper settings or mess with the device
> > manager, you just use a pass-through cable. When I put in my Monster
> > Voodoo2, it was auto-detected immediately. I thought that was the
> > saving grace of PCI - data-transfer would never match AGP, but what you
> > put in was taken in seamlessly. I would have thought that that fact
> > remained as true 5 years later - but then again, I'm still getting over
> > the fact that my brand new computer has less upgradability than the one
> > I got in 2001. What's next? A stereo deck with an 8-track? Cars w/o
> > power doors and locks?
> >
> >> Upon rebooting the new Radeon card did its thing and the display
> >> worked. Also I noticed after the reboot that the integrated garaphics
> >> that I had disabled was now enabled and now both graphics cards are
> >> enabled and don't conflict with each othe