Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Hi all!
 
I'm new here, so I hope this is the appropriate place for my questions. If
not, please feel free to (politely!) direct me to a better location. I
purchased a Dell Dimension 8300 loaded to the maximum--1 GB RAM, 3.4GHz
processor, etc... It's a nice machine and I'm pretty happy with it. However,
as time has gone on, I've come up with some things I'd like to change or
"fix" about it.
 
First, is there any way to make the thing a little quieter? I don't mind
noisy computers, but I run this thing in a distributed computing project
that usually keeps the CPU usage "pegged" all the time. My main issue is
that the fan throttles up and down just enough to be noticed--and it's quite
loud. The variations in speed are what I notice and find annoying. Is there
anything that can be done to alleviate this problem? (I've heard that Dell
made the 8400 quieter somehow...anybody have one and willing to take
pictures of the inside?)
 
Secondly, I'm not running Windows XP. The computer came preloaded with it,
but I don't use XP so I wiped it off of there and started with Windows 2000
Professional SP4. This runs well and most of the drivers from the Dell
driver CD *did* actually work. The only one that didn't was the Intel Pro
100/VE set of drivers. I found some generic ones for Windows 2000 from
Intel, and the onboard NIC now works just fine, but with some computers on
my network (a mixed wired and wireless setup) performance gets extremely
slow. Copying even small files can take forever on this machine, yet all
others on the network communicate just fine with the computers that my new
Dell "doesn't like" to talk to over the network. I do not believe it is the
networking hardware in the other computers--they are all configured
differently. Some are even wired while others are wireless! Is there
anything I can do to get better results with this onboard chipset? (I've
never had this much trouble with any other Intel NIC--onboard or
otherwise--so I'm hoping that it's maybe a driver issue.)
 
I'm reluctant to ask Dell for a variety of reasons. They outsource their
tech support and the people that do it now are very difficult for me to
understand, which causes embarassment and confusion. I'm also not sure
they'll say anything beyond "you loaded a different OS, what did you expect,
silly?" and I don't think there is an actual hardware failure in the
machine.
 
Third--is this machine one of the Dell models that uses a proprietary power
supply? I'm not expecting the power supply to die, but if it should and I am
out of warranty, will I be stuck paying whatever Dell asks for one?
 
Finally, there are a LOT of USB ports on this thing...any idea how exactly I
can determine what is hooked up to which one (Device Manager is really not
all that helpful) and why one of the controllers is listed as a "Standard
Enhanced PCI to USB Controller" while all the others are an Intel type? Why
is one different? Are all of the USB ports USB 2.0 or are some USB 1.1 or
earlier?
 
Thanks in advance for any answers or thoughts.
 
William

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

William,
 
Not owning an 8300, I can only comment on a few.
 
1) If you call Dell, they will say: reload XP and you will have your  
drivers. They would be right, as XP is superior to 2000 and there is no real  
reason to load a 4 year old operating system.
 
2) All ports are USB2. If some are reported as USB1.1, then 2000 is not  
properly installing the drivers.  Did you install the motherboard drivers?  
XP Sp1 would, of course, solve this problem too.
 
3) The power supply is standard
 
Tom
"William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com>  
wrote in message news:wdt2d.57972$MQ5.6738@attbi_s52...
> Hi all!
>
> I'm new here, so I hope this is the appropriate place for my questions. If
> not, please feel free to (politely!) direct me to a better location. I
> purchased a Dell Dimension 8300 loaded to the maximum--1 GB RAM, 3.4GHz
> processor, etc... It's a nice machine and I'm pretty happy with it.  
> However,
> as time has gone on, I've come up with some things I'd like to change or
> "fix" about it.
>
> First, is there any way to make the thing a little quieter? I don't mind
> noisy computers, but I run this thing in a distributed computing project
> that usually keeps the CPU usage "pegged" all the time. My main issue is
> that the fan throttles up and down just enough to be noticed--and it's  
> quite
> loud. The variations in speed are what I notice and find annoying. Is  
> there
> anything that can be done to alleviate this problem? (I've heard that Dell
> made the 8400 quieter somehow...anybody have one and willing to take
> pictures of the inside?)
>
> Secondly, I'm not running Windows XP. The computer came preloaded with it,
> but I don't use XP so I wiped it off of there and started with Windows  
> 2000
> Professional SP4. This runs well and most of the drivers from the Dell
> driver CD *did* actually work. The only one that didn't was the Intel Pro
> 100/VE set of drivers. I found some generic ones for Windows 2000 from
> Intel, and the onboard NIC now works just fine, but with some computers on
> my network (a mixed wired and wireless setup) performance gets extremely
> slow. Copying even small files can take forever on this machine, yet all
> others on the network communicate just fine with the computers that my new
> Dell "doesn't like" to talk to over the network. I do not believe it is  
> the
> networking hardware in the other computers--they are all configured
> differently. Some are even wired while others are wireless! Is there
> anything I can do to get better results with this onboard chipset? (I've
> never had this much trouble with any other Intel NIC--onboard or
> otherwise--so I'm hoping that it's maybe a driver issue.)
>
> I'm reluctant to ask Dell for a variety of reasons. They outsource their
> tech support and the people that do it now are very difficult for me to
> understand, which causes embarassment and confusion. I'm also not sure
> they'll say anything beyond "you loaded a different OS, what did you  
> expect,
> silly?" and I don't think there is an actual hardware failure in the
> machine.
>
> Third--is this machine one of the Dell models that uses a proprietary  
> power
> supply? I'm not expecting the power supply to die, but if it should and I  
> am
> out of warranty, will I be stuck paying whatever Dell asks for one?
>
> Finally, there are a LOT of USB ports on this thing...any idea how exactly  
> I
> can determine what is hooked up to which one (Device Manager is really not
> all that helpful) and why one of the controllers is listed as a "Standard
> Enhanced PCI to USB Controller" while all the others are an Intel type?  
> Why
> is one different? Are all of the USB ports USB 2.0 or are some USB 1.1 or
> earlier?
>
> Thanks in advance for any answers or thoughts.
>
> William
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I have an early 8300 from 4/03, and it is quite noisy. It has a video card  
with a fan so more noise. The DVD player sometimes also is loud so more  
noise. I wonder is the fan speed regulated by the temperature inside the  
cpu. I clean out my computers from time to time with a little canned air. I  
found a little program that give detail  information about a system  
http://www.lavalys.com/
 
Carolyn
"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message  
news:5LCdnVbhxIN_NtfcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> William,
>
> Not owning an 8300, I can only comment on a few.
>
> 1) If you call Dell, they will say: reload XP and you will have your  
> drivers. They would be right, as XP is superior to 2000 and there is no  
> real reason to load a 4 year old operating system.
>
> 2) All ports are USB2. If some are reported as USB1.1, then 2000 is not  
> properly installing the drivers.  Did you install the motherboard drivers?  
> XP Sp1 would, of course, solve this problem too.
>
> 3) The power supply is standard
>
> Tom
> "William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com>  
> wrote in message news:wdt2d.57972$MQ5.6738@attbi_s52...
>> Hi all!
>>
>> I'm new here, so I hope this is the appropriate place for my questions.  
>> If
>> not, please feel free to (politely!) direct me to a better location. I
>> purchased a Dell Dimension 8300 loaded to the maximum--1 GB RAM, 3.4GHz
>> processor, etc... It's a nice machine and I'm pretty happy with it.  
>> However,
>> as time has gone on, I've come up with some things I'd like to change or
>> "fix" about it.
>>
>> First, is there any way to make the thing a little quieter? I don't mind
>> noisy computers, but I run this thing in a distributed computing project
>> that usually keeps the CPU usage "pegged" all the time. My main issue is
>> that the fan throttles up and down just enough to be noticed--and it's  
>> quite
>> loud. The variations in speed are what I notice and find annoying. Is  
>> there
>> anything that can be done to alleviate this problem? (I've heard that  
>> Dell
>> made the 8400 quieter somehow...anybody have one and willing to take
>> pictures of the inside?)
>>
>> Secondly, I'm not running Windows XP. The computer came preloaded with  
>> it,
>> but I don't use XP so I wiped it off of there and started with Windows  
>> 2000
>> Professional SP4. This runs well and most of the drivers from the Dell
>> driver CD *did* actually work. The only one that didn't was the Intel Pro
>> 100/VE set of drivers. I found some generic ones for Windows 2000 from
>> Intel, and the onboard NIC now works just fine, but with some computers  
>> on
>> my network (a mixed wired and wireless setup) performance gets extremely
>> slow. Copying even small files can take forever on this machine, yet all
>> others on the network communicate just fine with the computers that my  
>> new
>> Dell "doesn't like" to talk to over the network. I do not believe it is  
>> the
>> networking hardware in the other computers--they are all configured
>> differently. Some are even wired while others are wireless! Is there
>> anything I can do to get better results with this onboard chipset? (I've
>> never had this much trouble with any other Intel NIC--onboard or
>> otherwise--so I'm hoping that it's maybe a driver issue.)
>>
>> I'm reluctant to ask Dell for a variety of reasons. They outsource their
>> tech support and the people that do it now are very difficult for me to
>> understand, which causes embarassment and confusion. I'm also not sure
>> they'll say anything beyond "you loaded a different OS, what did you  
>> expect,
>> silly?" and I don't think there is an actual hardware failure in the
>> machine.
>>
>> Third--is this machine one of the Dell models that uses a proprietary  
>> power
>> supply? I'm not expecting the power supply to die, but if it should and I  
>> am
>> out of warranty, will I be stuck paying whatever Dell asks for one?
>>
>> Finally, there are a LOT of USB ports on this thing...any idea how  
>> exactly I
>> can determine what is hooked up to which one (Device Manager is really  
>> not
>> all that helpful) and why one of the controllers is listed as a "Standard
>> Enhanced PCI to USB Controller" while all the others are an Intel type?  
>> Why
>> is one different? Are all of the USB ports USB 2.0 or are some USB 1.1 or
>> earlier?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any answers or thoughts.
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Hi!
 
Thank you for the information. Now, I really don't mean to sound harsh, nor
am I trying to upset you, but I don't think I got what I really needed or
wanted to know.
 
> 1) If you call Dell, they will say: reload XP and you will have your
> drivers. They would be right, as XP is superior to 2000 and there is no
real
> reason to load a 4 year old operating system.
 
It hasn't been my experience that XP is in any way "superior" to 2000 other
than to say that it is newer. I don't feel the performance is as good and
I'm working on things where I don't need the cutesy effects, new widgets,
skinning and overall "draggy" (at times) UI. I frequently work on projects
where I need all that the hardware can give me. Oh, and I just don't "need"
activation. I'm quite capable of using my software legally and buying
additional licenses when I need them.
 
As for the comment about Dell directing me to "reload XP and you will have
your drivers" that is not entirely correct. Dell supplies that driver CD for
a reason and I've restored several of their different models to factory
fresh condition--invariably the CD is needed to make some of the hardware
work even with systems that shipped with XP. It has also been my experience
that the CD contains drivers for many different operating systems, including
many versions of Windows. The one I got with my 8300 has been the lone
exception thus far.
 
> 2) All ports are USB2. If some are reported as USB1.1, then 2000 is not
> properly installing the drivers.  Did you install the motherboard drivers?
 
I don't know what speed the ports are operating at. I have no reason to
doubt Dell's published specs that state all USB ports are USB 2.0 capable. I
am just wondering why one USB controller would be identified differently
from all the rest. All the ports sure seem to work the same way...just one
controller is different. I was unable to locate a differing USB controller
on the motherboard, so I was curious.
 
> XP Sp1 would, of course, solve this problem too.
 
You can't solve a problem that doesn't exist. Not to offend (really!), but I
think you're trying to tell me that I had no business changing the OS to
something I prefer over XP. It is my computer as far as I know and I can run
what I want to...and so far, I'm not complaining.
 
> 3) The power supply is standard
 
Thanks for that information. I hope I'll never need it, but I'll keep that
in mind.
 
William

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com> wrote in message news:8OM2d.61919$MQ5.54401@attbi_s52...
 
> It hasn't been my experience that XP is in any way "superior" to 2000 other
> than to say that it is newer. I don't feel the performance is as good and
> I'm working on things where I don't need the cutesy effects, new widgets,
> skinning and overall "draggy" (at times) UI. I frequently work on projects
> where I need all that the hardware can give me.
 
Windows XP, particularly the Pro version, has a number of new features
which some people find very appealing...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp [...] ecomp.mspx
 
Which includes improved application, hardware, and networking support.
I have no idea what is causing your networking problems, but I can't
help but wonder if you would find it easier to get your network running
smoothly with the latest OS & drivers.  Should you ever care to try, be
advised that you can set XP to use the Windows Classic theme, adjust
Visual Effects settings for peformance over appearance, choose the
Classic Start Menu, eliminate the start menu delay, etc.  There are sites
that talk about XP performance tuning, and once you know where to go
and what to do, it takes but a minute or two to make XP look & feel like
2K.  I too prefer the "classic" interface, particularly on older machines
for it is much more snappy.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

William,
Did you check Dell's driver support page for the Dim8300,using Win2000 as your OS? There are several drivers that are available for that OS & PC. The generic drivers, you have found and installed, may be causing some of your problems.
 
http://support.dell.com/support/do [...] NT5&osl=EN
 
--  
 
Rich/rerat
 
(RRR News)    <message rule>
<<Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate>>
 
 
 
"Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:414bb570$0$2646$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 
"William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com> wrote in message news:8OM2d.61919$MQ5.54401@attbi_s52...
 
> It hasn't been my experience that XP is in any way "superior" to 2000 other
> than to say that it is newer. I don't feel the performance is as good and
> I'm working on things where I don't need the cutesy effects, new widgets,
> skinning and overall "draggy" (at times) UI. I frequently work on projects
> where I need all that the hardware can give me.
 
Windows XP, particularly the Pro version, has a number of new features
which some people find very appealing...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp [...] ecomp.mspx
 
Which includes improved application, hardware, and networking support.
I have no idea what is causing your networking problems, but I can't
help but wonder if you would find it easier to get your network running
smoothly with the latest OS & drivers.  Should you ever care to try, be
advised that you can set XP to use the Windows Classic theme, adjust
Visual Effects settings for peformance over appearance, choose the
Classic Start Menu, eliminate the start menu delay, etc.  There are sites
that talk about XP performance tuning, and once you know where to go
and what to do, it takes but a minute or two to make XP look & feel like
2K.  I too prefer the "classic" interface, particularly on older machines
for it is much more snappy.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

William R. Walsh wrote:
>>2) All ports are USB2. If some are reported as USB1.1, then 2000 is not
>>properly installing the drivers.  Did you install the motherboard drivers?
>  
>  
> I don't know what speed the ports are operating at. I have no reason to
> doubt Dell's published specs that state all USB ports are USB 2.0 capable. I
> am just wondering why one USB controller would be identified differently
> from all the rest. All the ports sure seem to work the same way...just one
> controller is different. I was unable to locate a differing USB controller
> on the motherboard, so I was curious.
 
William,
 
All your USB ports are USB 2.0 ports.  What you see in Device Manager  
are four standard USB controllers and one enhanced USB controller.  It  
took me awhile to figure out but, using the SISoftware SANDRA 2004  
program (www.sisoftware.net - standard edition is free for personal  
use), I discovered that each standard controller controls two of the USB  
ports when USB 1.1 devices are attached to those ports.  The enhanced  
USB controller has eight channels and is used when a USB 2.0 device is  
connected to any of the eight USB ports.  Use the Port Information icon  
in SANDRA 2004 and it will show you details of each device connected to  
the USB ports.  The Mainboard Information icon of SANDRA 2004 will give  
you general information about each USB controller.
 
Dave

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> First, is there any way to make the thing a little quieter? I don't mind
 
I have a 8300, too.  I noticed the fan noise depends on the
temperature around the computer.  Past couple of week the temperature
was in the low 90's, and the fan noise was quite loud.  Right now it's
humming at 70; I can barely hear the fan.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

kelvinyang@yahoo.com (ky) wrote:
 
>> First, is there any way to make the thing a little quieter? I don't mind
>
>I have a 8300, too.  I noticed the fan noise depends on the
>temperature around the computer.  Past couple of week the temperature
>was in the low 90's, and the fan noise was quite loud.  Right now it's
>humming at 70; I can barely hear the fan.
 
Same here.  Do you think it's the CPU fan.  I've already had them replace
the video card (ATI with fan) and the noise is still there, so I think it's
the cpu fan.
 
 
******************************************************
Charliec

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I don't think there is anything you can do if it is temperature
related problem.  Hot computer requires the fans to work harder, and
faster rotating fan makes more noise.  That's just the way it is...
unless you turn on the air conditioner and keep the room temperature
at a comfortable 76 and below or you just have to live with it.
 
Charliec <charliec@invalid.address.com> wrote in message news:<u32sk0dj14ofthpf8epjpcta057ga7cbet@4ax.com>...
> kelvinyang@yahoo.com (ky) wrote:
>  
> >> First, is there any way to make the thing a little quieter? I don't mind
> >
> >I have a 8300, too.  I noticed the fan noise depends on the
> >temperature around the computer.  Past couple of week the temperature
> >was in the low 90's, and the fan noise was quite loud.  Right now it's
> >humming at 70; I can barely hear the fan.
>  
> Same here.  Do you think it's the CPU fan.  I've already had them replace
> the video card (ATI with fan) and the noise is still there, so I think it's
> the cpu fan.
>  
>  
> ******************************************************
> Charliec

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 01:05:32 GMT, William R. Walsh wrote in  
<news:w7L3d.19888$wV.14756@attbi_s54>:
 
> The fan itself doesn't seem to be broken--it's not rumbling, rattling or
> having any difficulty whatsoever running. In fact, the system is maybe three
> months old as I write this. It's just that when the CPU is taxed the cooling
> fan speeds up (as expected) but the noise level of the moving air is rather
> high. I heard that Dell made the 8400 quieter, and I was wondering how/if
> that was really true. Fan noise doesn't bother me, but I'd like to know what
> Dell may have done to make the 8400 quieter than the 8300.
>  
> I'm still looking to hear from someone who has an 8400.
 
I have an 8400 and while I can't really quantify the noise level, I can say  
it's much quieter than my home-built machine.  The 8400 sits about 3 feet  
away from me when I'm sitting at the desk in here and I can barely hear it,  
but *nothing* like my home-built computer which I can hear in the other  
room.
 
Overall, I'm very happy with my 8400 performance and noise-wise.  :-)
 
Dave
--  
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!
 
http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98
 
Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <8csqy3c8d60n.dlg@sgtcaseycableone.net>,  
sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcableone.net says...
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 01:05:32 GMT, William R. Walsh wrote in  
> <news:w7L3d.19888$wV.14756@attbi_s54>:
>  
> > The fan itself doesn't seem to be broken--it's not rumbling, rattling or
> > having any difficulty whatsoever running. In fact, the system is maybe three
> > months old as I write this. It's just that when the CPU is taxed the cooling
> > fan speeds up (as expected) but the noise level of the moving air is rather
> > high. I heard that Dell made the 8400 quieter, and I was wondering how/if
> > that was really true. Fan noise doesn't bother me, but I'd like to know what
> > Dell may have done to make the 8400 quieter than the 8300.
> >  
> > I'm still looking to hear from someone who has an 8400.
>  
> I have an 8400 and while I can't really quantify the noise level, I can say  
> it's much quieter than my home-built machine.  The 8400 sits about 3 feet  
> away from me when I'm sitting at the desk in here and I can barely hear it,  
> but *nothing* like my home-built computer which I can hear in the other  
> room.
>  
> Overall, I'm very happy with my 8400 performance and noise-wise.  :-)
>  
> Dave
>  
does it remain quiet when the room is hot?
 
Louise

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Mine is always quiet except when it first reads a CD/DVD.  I have the  
Pentium 4 3.0.  If you order a faster P4, it will run hotter and noisier.
 
"Louise" <none@nospam.com> wrote in message  
news:MPG.1bb96c34da06892d989728@news-server.nyc.rr.com...
 
>>
> does it remain quiet when the room is hot?
>
> Louise

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 03:30:02 GMT, Louise wrote in
<news:MPG.1bb96c34da06892d989728@news-server.nyc.rr.com>:
 
>> I have an 8400 and while I can't really quantify the noise level, I can say  
>> it's much quieter than my home-built machine.  The 8400 sits about 3 feet  
>> away from me when I'm sitting at the desk in here and I can barely hear it,  
>> but *nothing* like my home-built computer which I can hear in the other  
>> room.
>>  
>> Overall, I'm very happy with my 8400 performance and noise-wise.  :-)
>  
> does it remain quiet when the room is hot?
 
The room my computer in tends to be the hottest room in the house and if
it's a warm day outside (I live in New Mexico) it gets up into the 80's in
here but if I'm not doing anything taxing on the 8400 (like playing a game)
it doesn't get that much louder.  When game playing, however, the noise
level does rise quite a bit but then I expect that to happen.  I just turn
up the speakers a bit more.  ;-)
 
Dave
--  
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!
 
http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98
 
Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

William, someone else helped me find specs for noise of Dell computers in  
Dell's "environmental data sheets" at
 
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/to [...] =en&s=corp
 
If you look up the sheets for the Dimension 8300 and 8400, you'll see that  
Dell says the 8300 is quieter.
 
I have an earlier model, a Dimension 4500, which I consider to be very  
noisy, and it's said by the data sheets to be even quieter than these newer  
models.
 
New is noisy.  Old is less noisy, but still noisy.  So old as to be obsolete  
is quiet.
 
I have read elsewhere that the only way to get a modern, new computer that  
is quiet is to build it yourself with lots of custom components.  I believe  
it.
 
- don
 
"William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com>  
wrote in message news:wdt2d.57972$MQ5.6738@attbi_s52...
> (I've heard that Dell
> made the 8400 quieter somehow...

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

What you are neglecting to consider is the effect faster and hotter running  
processors have on noise.  A P4 3.6 will run much hotter than a P4 3.0 and  
therefore the fan noise will be greater.  I have an 8400 with a P4 3.0 and  
it is the quietest computer I have ever owned!
 
 
"Don Enderton" <Enderton@nosuchaddress.duh> wrote in message  
news:unR4d.627009$Gx4.597230@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> William, someone else helped me find specs for noise of Dell computers in  
> Dell's "environmental data sheets" at
>
> http://www1.us.dell.com/content/to [...] =en&s=corp
>
> If you look up the sheets for the Dimension 8300 and 8400, you'll see that  
> Dell says the 8300 is quieter.
>
> I have an earlier model, a Dimension 4500, which I consider to be very  
> noisy, and it's said by the data sheets to be even quieter than these  
> newer models.
>
> New is noisy.  Old is less noisy, but still noisy.  So old as to be  
> obsolete is quiet.
>
> I have read elsewhere that the only way to get a modern, new computer that  
> is quiet is to build it yourself with lots of custom components.  I  
> believe it.
>
> - don
>
> "William R. Walsh" <newsgroups1@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com>  
> wrote in message news:wdt2d.57972$MQ5.6738@attbi_s52...
>> (I've heard that Dell
>> made the 8400 quieter somehow...
>
>