Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
was a replacement for another that was DOA).

My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.

Sooooo..... I have a few questions.

1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?

2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?

3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.

4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Well, be prepared for varied opinions. I will be accused of being a Dell
supporter (which I am, and doesn't seem so bad to me).

To summarize:

1) The products are outstanding. As with any company shipping this volume,
they are not perfect, so problems can occur
2) Service is seriously inferior to what it was 5 years ago, primarily
because the competitive price pressure has forced most machines under $1000.
For that money, they could not afford the level of service previously
provided when most machines were $2000+ (nor can any other vendor)
3) Of the major vendor, Dell's products and service are still tops
4) You will receive a number (I suspect) of very negative comments here.
Take them with a grain of salt, as this is a forum for people with problems.
Very few happy people come here, except those of us that are regulars,
trying to help.

Go for it. I recently purchased a Dimension 2400 (to add to my Dimension
8100, pair of Dimension 4550 models and an Inspiron 2100 laptop).

Tom
"Darren Yatadooet" <googlegroup@cowcope.com> wrote in message
news21e8aa5.0404170513.3293d75a@posting.google.com...
> I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
> old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
> problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
> was a replacement for another that was DOA).
>
> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
> considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
> disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
> them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
> turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
> Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
> them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.
>
> Sooooo..... I have a few questions.
>
> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I agree with Tom. I have 5 Dells in my house right now and I also bought a
Dell for my daughter and her husband. My son has 2 Dell desktops and an
Inspiron laptop at college with him. I have gone through two Dells that I no
longer have.

I buy them for the quality and the fact that they are as inexpensive as any
others. I can't build one as cheaply as I can buy a Dell. If you are buying
a computer based on service, you may look for a long time before you find
something that will suit you.

Are they what they used to be? Better. Is the service the same as it was a
few years ago? Definitely not.

"Darren Yatadooet" <googlegroup@cowcope.com> wrote in message
news21e8aa5.0404170513.3293d75a@posting.google.com...
> I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
> old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
> problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
> was a replacement for another that was DOA).
>
> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
> considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
> disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
> them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
> turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
> Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
> them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.
>
> Sooooo..... I have a few questions.
>
> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Darren Yatadooet" <googlegroup@cowcope.com> wrote in message
news21e8aa5.0404170513.3293d75a@posting.google.com...
> I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
> old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
> problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
> was a replacement for another that was DOA).
>
> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
> considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
> disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
> them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
> turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
> Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
> them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.
>
> Sooooo..... I have a few questions.
>
> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

I have been working with PC's since 81 and have always built my own (for a
time had my own PC business).
Recently I needed a PC quick with no time or ambition to gather up the parts
and build my own I ordered a Dell 8300. I did this based on two things,
standard components and the fact my brother had two he has never had
problems with. Well I received it and couldn't be happier. As for the
customer service side, can not give opinion there as have not had to use it.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I debated for a while but am now sitting in front of my 4th personally owned
Dell computer. (The rebate check arrived yesterday.) I could not find
another brand that seemed to offer as much for the money without buying into
other issues. At work, we've only purchased Dells for a couple of years now.
We would now have several thousand at least at our site alone. No system
maker is perfect and price pressures will make even the best cut corners to
reach certain price points. Many people advocate build your own or support a
local "screw driver shop". Unfortunately, economies of scale will have a
major influence on the price worthiness of these options as well as the
overall reputation of that local shop.

Good luck with what ever you decide but it might be helpful to keep in mind
that computers are more like commodities these days than they were 5, 10, 15
years ago. It's more often the OS and the applications that are the cause
of dissatisfaction than hardware issues these days and hardware is easily
changed with many alternate choices ... unless it's a Mac, but that's
another story.

YMMV

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Darren Yatadooet wrote:

> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

I don't know what it "used to be". I've bought 6 Dell systems in the
past three years for myself and others. Even back then people were
complaining that Dell computers and Dell service wasn't what it used to
be. However with the tech support I needed on two systems and Customer
Care on a third, everything was handled fast and efficiently and in two
of the cases Dell went beyond what they had to do to fix the problem.

Experience with Sony and HP has been worse. But I wouldn't hesitate at
buying an IBM Thinkpad.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate

BSODs are often caused by a software problem rather than a hardware
failure. Have you scanned for spyware / malware / used the internet
explorer repair tool etc to see if it helped ?

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
* old email address "btiruseless" abandoned due to worm-generated spam *
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I'm perfectly happy with my Dimension 2300 quality wise. My only experience
with Dell customer service was asking advice on how to disable the built-in
video so I could install my own PCI video card. The web-based customer
service responding to my question was fast and accurate.

Paul Riemerman



"Darren Yatadooet" <googlegroup@cowcope.com> wrote in message
news21e8aa5.0404170513.3293d75a@posting.google.com...
>I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
> old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
> problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
> was a replacement for another that was DOA).
>
> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
> considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
> disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
> them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
> turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
> Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
> them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.
>
> Sooooo..... I have a few questions.
>
> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:E-ednesTyuzUshzdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Well, be prepared for varied opinions. I will be accused of being a Dell
> supporter (which I am, and doesn't seem so bad to me).
>

Being in denial about the state that Dell are in is not something you'd
normally expect someone to brag about

> To summarize:
>
> 1) The products are outstanding. As with any company shipping this volume,
> they are not perfect, so problems can occur

I'd disagree with "outstanding" and you've clearly killfiled anyone who
dares to post negative Dell comments otherwise (if you'd read them) you'd
realise it's when "problems occur" that Dell's customer service is found
lacking

> 2) Service is seriously inferior to what it was 5 years ago, primarily
> because the competitive price pressure has forced most machines under
> $1000.
> For that money, they could not afford the level of service previously
> provided when most machines were $2000+ (nor can any other vendor)

Agreed

> 3) Of the major vendor, Dell's products and service are still tops

Biased speculation as per your admission that you're a Dell supporter

> 4) You will receive a number (I suspect) of very negative comments here.
> Take them with a grain of salt, as this is a forum for people with
> problems.
> Very few happy people come here, except those of us that are regulars,
> trying to help.
>

Why take them with a grain of salt and not at face value Tom? (serious
question btw)

Is the opinion of people who've been rear-ended by Dell any less valid than
those who've had good service? (another serious question)

Or should those of us who *have* been rear-ended start screaming "troll" at
anyone who's been lucky with Dell?

The simple fact is: a company the size of Dell *will* (through business
volume alone) royally shaft hundreds of thousands of consumers every year.

Yes or no Tom?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Very well put, Tom. I will probably NOT be getting another Dell but it has
nothing to do with feelings toward Dell, I just want to try something
different. For what its worth, I follow 3 magazines that review the big pc
companies on a yearly basis, Consumer Reports, PC Magazine, and PC World.
All three always have Dell at or near the top for building quality
computers, along with IBM and Apple. But all three magazines have reported
Dell slipping with tech support and customer service after the sale.

--
Have both a nice day and a happy life, Acadia.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I'm not going to bother to reply to your specific questions as you're just
trying to start a fight. I did want to comment on one statement though,
because it made me laugh so hard:

"The simple fact is: a company the size of Dell *will* (through business
volume alone) royally shaft hundreds of thousands of consumers every year."

If Dell royally shafted literally hundreds of thousands a year, two things
would happen. First, this newsgroup would have thousands of posts a day of
complaints, not a few a week and two, they would long be out of business.
As for my comment about their being the best, read the following post.

I am surprised that you imply I claim everyone is a troll. I don't. Even
when I think they're position is startlingly unbelievable, I make an attempt
to help. Others may make that claim, not me.

It's particularly interesting that rather than posting your experiences with
Dell, you felt the need to attack me. Certainly makes me believe your
position.

If you re-read my post, I was very clear that I believe Dell's support has
slipped. I do believe, and most studies back me up, that they are still the
top of the heap.

And I like my Dells. So?

Tom
>
"Glenn Banwell" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:hhcgc.107368$Ff6.11488@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:E-ednesTyuzUshzdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> > Well, be prepared for varied opinions. I will be accused of being a
Dell
> > supporter (which I am, and doesn't seem so bad to me).
> >
>
> Being in denial about the state that Dell are in is not something you'd
> normally expect someone to brag about
>
> > To summarize:
> >
> > 1) The products are outstanding. As with any company shipping this
volume,
> > they are not perfect, so problems can occur
>
> I'd disagree with "outstanding" and you've clearly killfiled anyone who
> dares to post negative Dell comments otherwise (if you'd read them) you'd
> realise it's when "problems occur" that Dell's customer service is found
> lacking
>
> > 2) Service is seriously inferior to what it was 5 years ago, primarily
> > because the competitive price pressure has forced most machines under
> > $1000.
> > For that money, they could not afford the level of service previously
> > provided when most machines were $2000+ (nor can any other vendor)
>
> Agreed
>
> > 3) Of the major vendor, Dell's products and service are still tops
>
> Biased speculation as per your admission that you're a Dell supporter
>
> > 4) You will receive a number (I suspect) of very negative comments here.
> > Take them with a grain of salt, as this is a forum for people with
> > problems.
> > Very few happy people come here, except those of us that are regulars,
> > trying to help.
> >
>
> Why take them with a grain of salt and not at face value Tom? (serious
> question btw)
>
> Is the opinion of people who've been rear-ended by Dell any less valid
than
> those who've had good service? (another serious question)
>
> Or should those of us who *have* been rear-ended start screaming "troll"
at
> anyone who's been lucky with Dell?
>
> The simple fact is: a company the size of Dell *will* (through business
> volume alone) royally shaft hundreds of thousands of consumers every year.
>
> Yes or no Tom?
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Just bought an 8300 after 6 years of good service out of my old Gateway.
They beat the promised delivery date by about a week. The color on the
monitor (M992) was poor and I had a new one delivered the next day (after
Dell promised 7 days). I did have to go through some useless testing with
Tech Support, but I expected to have to play by their rules for service.
Only had one other (software) problem that I could have probably resolved
here, but wanted to give Dell support another try. Again resolved on the
first call in about 15 minutes. Both tech support calls appeared to be
Indian accent, but no complaints with quality of service or being able to
understand. So far so good as far as I'm concerned. I did buy the Express
Support option ($79) because of the service complaints I've read about.
System appears to be more cheaply made than the old Gateway but the new
Gateways I looked at were also (and it was significantly cheaper for that
matter). Almost bought the Gateway for the Country Store service so good
thing I passed on that. Some of the other HP's and Sony's I looked at
"looked" more solid, but the price was significantly higher and most
articles rated there over all quality, including Tech Support, as
significantly worse. Unless you're willing to build your own, Dell still
seems to be the best game in town for now. Unless you're in a hurry, watch
the offers from Dell. I haven't been able to spec out a system equivalent
to mine for less than $250 more since I bought it.

"Darren Yatadooet" <googlegroup@cowcope.com> wrote in message
news21e8aa5.0404170513.3293d75a@posting.google.com...
> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Darren Yatadooet wrote:

> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?

I buy Dell servers, desktops and laptops for various clients, and have done
for years. The quality now is as good as it ever was. Yes, occasionally
parts fail; if the machine is under warranty, I arrange repair or
replacement, and out of warranty I buy whatever is required.

The service of Dell support *has* dropped considerably; to the point where I
now buy my machines with the minimum warranty; I save the money and put it
towards any required repairs. Having said that, I do occasionally have to
contact them. As long as you realise that they are human as well, and are
polite to them and answer the questions, no matter how infuriating they are
to you, you'll get the resolution you need.

In terms of alternatives, I have sites with HP/Compaq desktops and servers
which are very much equal to Dell in terms of performance and stability. IBM
would be nice, but are still too expensive. Sony are expensive and fragile,
with worse service than any other manufactuer in my personal experience.
Gateway are a joke - how can you consider any company a player when they
pull out of entire continents with little notice to end-users (I've just
vetoed a client purchase of eMachines equipment, simply because it's owned
by Gateway).

HTH,

Pete.
Derby.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Darren Yatadooet wrote:
> I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
> old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
> problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
> was a replacement for another that was DOA).
>
> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
> considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
> disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
> them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
> turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
> Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
> them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.
>
> Sooooo..... I have a few questions.

<<snipped>>

While the questions and concerns are valid, if Dell were not
that good of a company, then it would be disappearing out of
existence. It has survived along with another company with a
good reputation, viz., IBM. As for competitors, E-Machines
has acquired Gateway and Compaq was absorbed into HP, for
examples. We are custom OEM builders but if the client wants
an off-the-shelf system to modify, we choose only Dell. Just
look at how clean and well-designed is the interior of a Dell
right off the assembly line.

The real issue that needs to be addressed are the stop errors
themselves. What OS? What types of Stop errors are reported?
Even with stable OS's such as Windows NT/2000/XP, blue screens
will occur. The causes range from hardware to software; worms,
viruses, trojans, etc.; unsolicited/unsupervised Windows updates,
driver file updates, and so on.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:A8qdnRkPo62T_hzdRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> I'm not going to bother to reply to your specific questions as you're just
> trying to start a fight.

Actually I wasn't, they were genuine questions.

Flame wars are for bored teenagers.

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Dell is probably a little better than most other companies.
I have a Dell laptop and I like it, the down side is, their support has been
out sourced to India.
If you know a competent person with knowledge about computers, have that
person build you one.
Use good components and your problems will be minimal.
In other words, don't cut corners!

"Darren Yatadooet" <googlegroup@cowcope.com> wrote in message
news21e8aa5.0404170513.3293d75a@posting.google.com...
> I own two Dells, a laptop and a desktop. The desktop is four years
> old, and other than a burned out DVD drive, hasn't given me much
> problem until now. The laptop also has been pretty good (although it
> was a replacement for another that was DOA).
>
> My desktop is now giving me trouble (namely, the BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH
> and the failure of several programs (internet explorer being one) to
> operate. When I thought about getting a replacement, naturally I
> considered Dell. However, as I began researching models, I saw a
> disturbing trend. It seems that many Dell fans are turning against
> them for both a reduction in quality of their products, and the severe
> turn in the level of service they provide to their customers.
> Reseller ratings, which granted is less than scientific, seems to have
> them at the bottom of the barrel, and several posts here say the same.
>
> Sooooo..... I have a few questions.
>
> 1) What, honestly, is the state of Dell's customer service. Is it so
> bad you'd never buy again? Is it marginally worse? Is it a case of
> bad experiences outweighing the good on the internet because people
> are more likely to post complaints than good experiences?
>
> 2) Are Dell computers being built worse than they were before?
>
> 3) If not Dell, who? And I'd like to know this from people who are
> former Dell owners. I prefer an online or store bought PC, because I
> don't know of any locally owned businesses that have a reputation for
> building decent PCs. I have priced systems on ibuypower.com,
> abspc.com, and of course, Gateway, Sony, HP, Compaq, and IBM.
>
> 4) Given the backlash against outsourcing of Customer Service, does
> anyone perceive that service is actually improving?