Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

....Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.

Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.

I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
for such software.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Special Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

Apparently? This is perfectly clear on the box.

>
> I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn
> old man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses
> VCRs.
>
> Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks
> per month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program
> it to record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy
> another Tivo product because of this built in uselessness of the
> hardware.

Which you were well aware of when you bought the unit.

>
> I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to
> simply record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a
> Tivo software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new
> OS on it that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly
> pay $30 or $40 for such software.
>

So go out and buy one of the many other solutions available.

FWIW a SA series one Tivo will do what you want.


--
David

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
4ax.com:

> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

Who told you otherwise?

> month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
> record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
> product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.

Yeah...I can't program my cell phone to record shows by date/time like a
VCR either. However, not having been designed to do so, I don't worry
about it.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns966A7202055Estile@129.250.170.89...
> Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> Who told you otherwise?
>
> > month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
> > record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
> > product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>
> Yeah...I can't program my cell phone to record shows by date/time like a
> VCR either. However, not having been designed to do so, I don't worry
> about it.

Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a landline
phone, either.

Ed
84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Special" <spec@spec.org> wrote in message
news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@4ax.com...
> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
> man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>
> Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
> month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
> record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
> product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>
> I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
> record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
> software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
> that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
> for such software.

So "The only problem with Tivo..." is really all the idiots who buy it and
don't have a clue about how their new purchase works.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Thank YOU, for that amazing revelation! Let me share
a similar experience with you. I am PISSED at Ford Motor
Company. Last month I bought a new Ford Mustang.
Well, wouldn't you know it? Two days later it STOPPED
RUNNING!!!! TOTALLY!!! I called their towing service,
and it turns out I HAVE TO KEEP PUTTING STUFF
CALLED GASOLINE IN IT, EVERY FEW DAYS!!!
And this stuff costs MONEY!! LOTS AND LOTS OF
MONEY!!!

OMG WHAT A FRIKKIN' RIPOFF!!!!

I hereby knight thee, and dub thee "Sir Captain Obvious",
knight of the realm of stupidity and defender of morons.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Dude, get off the cheap train and subscribe like the rest of us do...

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

He may as well not buy a car since you have to put gas in it too.

> Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
> don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
> the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a
> landline
> phone, either.
>
> Ed
> 84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:

> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

The trouble with my grocery store is they won't give me food unless I pay.

--
"It is more uplifting to find the beauty, wonder, spirituality, and
reverence in what we can see, than to imagine they only exist in what we
can't see." - hawthorn@sover.net http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn/

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
system.
But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SAC 441" <SAC441@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28321-42A246A5-295@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...

> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>

Apples and oranges are both fruits
....with seeds
....grown on trees
Apples and oranges can be either sweet or tangy
Apples and oranges can be made into a delicious juice

So what's the problem? : p

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Zardoz posited a reply to my posting which said:
----"Apples and oranges are both fruits
...with seeds
...grown on trees
Apples and oranges can be either sweet or tangy
Apples and oranges can be made into a delicious juice

So what's the problem? "----


Reply:
No problem.....I was making an analogy comparing TiVo and VCR's as akin
to apples and oranges.
The analogy is apt in my opinion.They both do SIMILAR functions,yet are
unique and DISSIMILAR in their own ways.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

SAC 441 wrote:

> My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
> VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
> people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
> system.
> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>

You can use a VCR for free, but unless your purchase tapes (ala gas for
the car) it's pretty useless.

--Charlene


--
Artifical Flavor: A chemical concoction with the power to make grape
soda taste more like grapes than grapes do. -- Bayan, Rick; The Cynic's
Dictionary, 2002


email perronnelle at earthlink . net

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SAC 441" <SAC441@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23652-42A278CE-369@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
> Zardoz posited a reply to my posting which said:
> ----"Apples and oranges are both fruits
> ..with seeds
> ..grown on trees
> Apples and oranges can be either sweet or tangy
> Apples and oranges can be made into a delicious juice
>
> So what's the problem? "----
>
>
> Reply:
> No problem.....I was making an analogy comparing TiVo and VCR's as akin
> to apples and oranges.
> The analogy is apt in my opinion.They both do SIMILAR functions,yet are
> unique and DISSIMILAR in their own ways.
>

wooosh

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 04:52:19 GMT, Charlene Charette wrote:

>SAC 441 wrote:
>
>> My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
>> VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
>> people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
>> system.
>> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>>
>
>You can use a VCR for free, but unless your purchase tapes (ala gas for
>the car) it's pretty useless.
>
>--Charlene

The car analogies don't quite work the way you are using them.
Read it in this manner.
You buy a (car/TiVo). You take the (car/TiVo) home and it sits
exactly where you put it. You love your new (car/TiVo), it's
really great. However, the (car/TiVo) needs fuel, so you provide
it with (gasoline/electricity) when necessary. So far, both car
and TiVo use the same purchase model - You paid for the hardware,
you get to use the hardware.
Any additional agreements should not impinge upon this simple
transaction.

The OP's hardware, legally bought and owned, is not functional
unless he agrees to send payments to the seller for as long as he
wants to be able to use his own property. So a unit bought for
$199 with a monthly fee of $12.95 doubles the total cost in only
16 months.
Someone's going to say "You're full of bull, that extra fee is
for the service subscription!" We don't have the option of
refusing this 'extra' feature, it's required. And because it's
required, the word 'extra' doesn't apply.

How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your
computer contacts the windows update site every other day. If it
doesn't 'call in' for a month, Windows refuses to allow you to
type any email/add any other software. All you can do with that
computer is view things that were already there. You're stuck
paying microsoft a monthly fee for as long as you want full
access to the basic functionality of your computer.

Someone should create a hack that creates false guide data,
consisting completely of 30 min timeslots, all labeled 'To Be
Announced'. That would keep the box happy, and allow the users to
manually enter time/channel recordings and make use of the live
buffer. And for all that, TiVo corp. still gets paid for the
hardware. If sometime later on that person wants to make use of
the suggestions/wishlist functions, they can go ahead and buy the
service. It's their *option*, not a ransom payment for the fair
use of equipment they already own.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<Jason> wrote in message news:sfk6a19t3jdf6reou6lis8fmiplhgasega@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 04:52:19 GMT, Charlene Charette wrote:
>
>>SAC 441 wrote:
>>
>>> My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
>>> VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
>>> people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
>>> system.
>>> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>>>
>>
>>You can use a VCR for free, but unless your purchase tapes (ala gas for
>>the car) it's pretty useless.
>>
>>--Charlene
>
> The car analogies don't quite work the way you are using them.
> Read it in this manner.
> You buy a (car/TiVo). You take the (car/TiVo) home and it sits
> exactly where you put it. You love your new (car/TiVo), it's
> really great. However, the (car/TiVo) needs fuel, so you provide
> it with (gasoline/electricity) when necessary. So far, both car
> and TiVo use the same purchase model - You paid for the hardware,
> you get to use the hardware.
> Any additional agreements should not impinge upon this simple
> transaction.
>
> The OP's hardware, legally bought and owned, is not functional
> unless he agrees to send payments to the seller for as long as he
> wants to be able to use his own property. So a unit bought for
> $199 with a monthly fee of $12.95 doubles the total cost in only
> 16 months.
> Someone's going to say "You're full of bull, that extra fee is
> for the service subscription!" We don't have the option of
> refusing this 'extra' feature, it's required. And because it's
> required, the word 'extra' doesn't apply.
>
> How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
> the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your
> computer contacts the windows update site every other day. If it
> doesn't 'call in' for a month, Windows refuses to allow you to
> type any email/add any other software. All you can do with that
> computer is view things that were already there. You're stuck
> paying microsoft a monthly fee for as long as you want full
> access to the basic functionality of your computer.
>
> Someone should create a hack that creates false guide data,
> consisting completely of 30 min timeslots, all labeled 'To Be
> Announced'. That would keep the box happy, and allow the users to
> manually enter time/channel recordings and make use of the live
> buffer. And for all that, TiVo corp. still gets paid for the
> hardware. If sometime later on that person wants to make use of
> the suggestions/wishlist functions, they can go ahead and buy the
> service. It's their *option*, not a ransom payment for the fair
> use of equipment they already own.

You are free to use the hardware however you see fit without paying for a
subscription.

The software that is pre-loaded on the box is an entirely different matter.
Software is not sold. It is only licensed under the terms set forth my the
owner. Some software owners choose to let you use their software for a
single fee upfront. TiVo chooses to let you use their software 2 ways. 1
is a fee upfront (the lifetime service subscription) and the other is pay as
you go.

If one doesn't want to use the TiVo software under the terms of it's legal
owner (TiVo), then they are free to wipe the hard drive clean and install
different software.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
> the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your
> computer contacts the windows update site every other day. If it
> doesn't 'call in' for a month, Windows refuses to allow you to
> type any email/add any other software. All you can do with that
> computer is view things that were already there. You're stuck
> paying microsoft a monthly fee for as long as you want full
> access to the basic functionality of your computer.

Lots of software providers use an annual fee model and many people use
them with no complaint. At the University where I work I can name
several packages that do this, SAS, SPSS, ArcGIS are just a few. If you
don't pay the fee, the software is still installed on your harddrive, it
just won't work.

There's nothing wrong with a recurring payment model per se. If you
think it's too expensive that's a different issue, but it doesn't make
the business model bad because of that.
>
> Someone should create a hack that creates false guide data,
> consisting completely of 30 min timeslots, all labeled 'To Be
> Announced'. That would keep the box happy, and allow the users to
> manually enter time/channel recordings and make use of the live
> buffer. And for all that, TiVo corp. still gets paid for the
> hardware. If sometime later on that person wants to make use of
> the suggestions/wishlist functions, they can go ahead and buy the
> service. It's their *option*, not a ransom payment for the fair
> use of equipment they already own.

I don't get this, there are lots of DVR's out there that will record by
time and channel that are not Tivo and don't require a subscription. If
that's what people want, then they should go buy one of those. Tivo,
for what it's worth, isn't interested in providing that type of
hardware. They desire to provide a value added service model *only*.
Why do you get to decide that decision is incorrect or wrong? They even
offer an upfront cost model (lifetime subscription), if you so desire,
it's not their fault you don't want to pay it.

As others have said, you own the hardware, not the software. If you
want to go develop a new OS for it that will record by time and channel,
then go for it, but don't expect Tivo to provide it for you. But don't
expect it to be easy, them's pretty proprietary chips in there (not the
CPU, but the decoder hardware).

OTOH, an interesting project might be to develop a Linux OS for an old
Tivo that would allow you to surf the web/read e-mail on it. You
wouldn't run into the problem of drivers for the decoders that way.

Randy S.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Thank you PollyAnna.
> And of course you claim every single penny that comes into your posession to
> the IRS, come to a complete stop at all stop signs and red lights, never
> ever go over the speed limit by even as much as 1 mph, never throw
> disallowed items in the trash, etc, etc.

Exactly what are you trying to say? That hacking a Tivo to steal
service is on par with those things? I'd think you'd find a lot of
disagreement with that statement here. Where do you draw the line? If
it's ok with you to sometimes not stop at redlights, is it ok to
sometimes murder people?

You're accusing someone of not having the same values as you apparently
do on at least one issue. I think you're going to have to learn to
accept that. It doesn't make the other person wrong.

Randy S.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

If you like the tivo hardware but dont want to pay the subscription fee,
you should check out the Tivo/DVD burner from Toshiba or Pioneer. It
will cost you about the same as a standard tivo box with lifetime
subscription, but if you wanted a DVD recorder anyway it is worth it.
With those you can use "Tivo Basic" for no mon