Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I have just been given a DVL-909 by a friend to replace a Laser Disk
player I have had for years that broke. The unit has component video
outputs (as far as I can tell they are only available on the US unit),
however the component outputs only seem to work for the DVDs, not the
LaserDiscs, which only play in black & white. Since I am only
interested in the LaserDisc portion of this player I am trying to find
out if there is any way to get the LaserDiscs to output in color using
the component outputs. If possible I would prefer using the component
outputs over the S-Video or Composite video outputs. If anyone has any
experience with this unit I would appreciate any advice.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 05:17:38 GMT, Paul O'Malley <paulomalley@comcast.net> wrote:


>I have just been given a DVL-909 by a friend to replace a Laser Disk
>player I have had for years that broke. The unit has component video
>outputs (as far as I can tell they are only available on the US unit),
>however the component outputs only seem to work for the DVDs, not the
>LaserDiscs, which only play in black & white. Since I am only
>interested in the LaserDisc portion of this player I am trying to find
>out if there is any way to get the LaserDiscs to output in color using
>the component outputs. If possible I would prefer using the component
>outputs over the S-Video or Composite video outputs. If anyone has any
>experience with this unit I would appreciate any advice.

Laserdisks store the video signal in composite form. Using any other cable
other than composite will not yield the slightest improvement. In fact, if your
TV is newer than the laserdisk player, using its comb filter (ie: using a
composite signal) will be an improvement.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Paul O'Malley wrote:
> I have just been given a DVL-909 by a friend to replace a Laser Disk
> player I have had for years that broke. The unit has component video
> outputs (as far as I can tell they are only available on the US unit),
> however the component outputs only seem to work for the DVDs, not the
> LaserDiscs, which only play in black & white. Since I am only
> interested in the LaserDisc portion of this player I am trying to find
> out if there is any way to get the LaserDiscs to output in color using
> the component outputs. If possible I would prefer using the component
> outputs over the S-Video or Composite video outputs. If anyone has any
> experience with this unit I would appreciate any advice.

The component outputs are only for the DVD player and will not work
with the LD player. You can only use the S-Video or composite outputs
for LD. Which one to use depends on your display device. Your LD
player has a 3 line digital comb filter, which is good but if you are
using a modern TV, such as an HDTV, it likely has a better comb filter.
If you wish to use the comb filter in the LD player, use the S-video
output. If you believe your displays comb filter is better, then use
the composite output. Using composite will bypass the LD players comb
filter and use the one in the TV.

I agree that most of the time it is better to use the composite output
if you have a modern TV unless you have one of the higher end LD player
that has a 3D comb filter, such as the X9 and S9.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:36:45 GMT, NEWman <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:


>There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
>output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
>http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm

Waste of money and it won't make the slightest improvement.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:31:21 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com>
wrote:

>>There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
>>output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
>>http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm
>
>Waste of money and it won't make the slightest improvement.

Have you tried/seen a unit with this mod?

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
news:2hiug1pikbt427vi1jtf0uak3m39uo49cc@4ax.com...
>>>There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
>>>output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
>>>http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm
>>
>>Waste of money and it won't make the slightest improvement.
>
> Have you tried/seen a unit with this mod?

Laserdisc video is stored in composite format. Any modification to allow
a component video connection will just adapt that composite video to
component-compatible output, but will not actually improve the video
quality any.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:50:25 GMT, "Joshua Zyber"
<jzyber@mind-NOSPAM-spring.com> wrote:

>"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
>news:2hiug1pikbt427vi1jtf0uak3m39uo49cc@4ax.com...
>>>>There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
>>>>output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
>>>>http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm
>>>
>>>Waste of money and it won't make the slightest improvement.
>>
>> Have you tried/seen a unit with this mod?
>
>Laserdisc video is stored in composite format. Any modification to allow
>a component video connection will just adapt that composite video to
>component-compatible output, but will not actually improve the video
>quality any.

Right, taking RGB from composite baseband video is exactly what a
colour demodulator in a TV does when it takes a composite or Y/C
signal and demodulates it and matrixes the result to the red, green,
and blue guns of a picture tube. And quality varies widely depending
upon the sophistication and cost of the demodulator. A comb filter has
to be part of the circuit with laserdisc as the source. The comb
filter and demodulator of the TV could very well give better results
than some aftermarket box.

The only advantage to a cheap RGB demodulator is that it can be used
with an RGB-only monitor, such as a PC monitor, and in fact that there
are consumer-grade boxes that take TV or a video signal and output to
a PC/MAC monitor.


I am lucky enough to have a broadcast demodulator made by Sony, it
takes in composite or Y/C NTSC or PAL baseband video, puts the
composite input through an adaptive 3-line comb filter, and outputs
RGB and Yuv using an involved digital method. This box cost thousands
of dollars when new, and still fetches a good sum from Jobbers. There
is no "quick fix" to get RGB from composite with good results.


... Steve ..

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:50:25 GMT, "Joshua Zyber"
<jzyber@mind-NOSPAM-spring.com> wrote:

>"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
>news:2hiug1pikbt427vi1jtf0uak3m39uo49cc@4ax.com...
>>>>There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
>>>>output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
>>>>http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm
>>>
>>>Waste of money and it won't make the slightest improvement.
>>
>> Have you tried/seen a unit with this mod?
>
>Laserdisc video is stored in composite format. Any modification to allow
>a component video connection will just adapt that composite video to
>component-compatible output, but will not actually improve the video
>quality any.

What if the RGB is taken in the internal processing board of the LD
player *BEFORE* being recombined into composite to be outputted?
That would be the use of that board, obviously getting RGB *AFTER* it
has been ricombined into composite would be pointless.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:55:12 GMT, NEWman <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:


>On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:50:25 GMT, "Joshua Zyber"
><jzyber@mind-NOSPAM-spring.com> wrote:

>>"NEWman" <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote in message
>>news:2hiug1pikbt427vi1jtf0uak3m39uo49cc@4ax.com...
>>>>>There's a third party add-on board that will enable RGB component
>>>>>output on the Laserdisc, see this page:
>>>>>http://www.bde.de/rgb.htm
>>>>
>>>>Waste of money and it won't make the slightest improvement.
>>>
>>> Have you tried/seen a unit with this mod?
>>
>>Laserdisc video is stored in composite format. Any modification to allow
>>a component video connection will just adapt that composite video to
>>component-compatible output, but will not actually improve the video
>>quality any.

>What if the RGB is taken in the internal processing board of the LD
>player *BEFORE* being recombined into composite to be outputted?
>That would be the use of that board, obviously getting RGB *AFTER* it
>has been ricombined into composite would be pointless.

Then you're not talking about a laserdisk player. Laserdisk's have composite
video stored on the disk itself. They don't extract RGB and then combine
to a composite signal.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

NEWman skrev:

>
> What if the RGB is taken in the internal processing board of the LD
> player *BEFORE* being recombined into composite to be outputted?

Oh, you're so right man.

The S-video signal is taken from a chip, that also has unused RGB-pins.
I think it's a SONY chip.

This subject has been touched before in this NG a couple of years ago.

Brian Hougaard Baldersbæk

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 27 Aug 2005 01:58:01 -0700, "[DK6400] Brian Hougaard Baldersbæk"
<DK6400Brian@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>NEWman skrev:
>
>>
>> What if the RGB is taken in the internal processing board of the LD
>> player *BEFORE* being recombined into composite to be outputted?
>
>Oh, you're so right man.
>
>The S-video signal is taken from a chip, that also has unused RGB-pins.
>I think it's a SONY chip.

That chip is part of the colour demodulator I referred to. The chip
also has support for a comb filter.

Read A Z Nomad's post, the laser uses baseband composite video, any
Y/C output and RGB is extra processing, more easily accomplished in
the Tv set.
>
>This subject has been touched before in this NG a couple of years ago.
>
>Brian Hougaard Baldersbæk

... Steve ..

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 07:32:08 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com>
wrote:

>Then you're not talking about a laserdisk player. Laserdisk's have composite
>video stored on the disk itself. They don't extract RGB and then combine
>to a composite signal.

I doubt that what you get on the composite output of the unit is the
exact same thing that's printed on the disc.
I'm not talking about ALL the LDP on the market, but only those who
have "enhancements" of some sort to give a cleaner/sharper/better
output signal, this unit (909) in particular.
The LDP does some "work " on the signal, and to do that it has to work
at component level.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 05:28:00 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
<jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:

>Read A Z Nomad's post, the laser uses baseband composite video, any
>Y/C output and RGB is extra processing, more easily accomplished in
>the Tv set.
>>
Getting RGB at the unit would eliminate the need to do the recombining
in the unit and then the separation in the TV.
You'll skip 2 steps that WILL add noise/artifacts.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:30:49 GMT, NEWman <koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:


>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 05:28:00 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
><jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:

>>Read A Z Nomad's post, the laser uses baseband composite video, any
>>Y/C output and RGB is extra processing, more easily accomplished in
>>the Tv set.
>>>
>Getting RGB at the unit would eliminate the need to do the recombining
>in the unit and then the separation in the TV.
>You'll skip 2 steps that WILL add noise/artifacts.

That would make sense if there really was recombining in the unit.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:30:49 GMT, NEWman
<koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 05:28:00 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
><jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:
>
>>Read A Z Nomad's post, the laser uses baseband composite video, any
>>Y/C output and RGB is extra processing, more easily accomplished in
>>the Tv set.
>>>
>Getting RGB at the unit would eliminate the need to do the recombining
>in the unit and then the separation in the TV.
>You'll skip 2 steps that WILL add noise/artifacts.

Laserdisc, like C-format and Quad tape, (but not home consumer formats
or Betacam etc.) has the video recorded as composite. Period.
Luninance and chroma are all combined into one signal. To obtain RGB
is to use a colour demodulator, with its intrinsic likelihood of
colour phase errors, incorrect saturation etc. There is no differnce
whatsoever between obtaining RGB from a composite signal and detecting
colour in a TV set. None. Outputting the compsite to the TV then
using the TV to detect the colour has the same number of steps as
demodulating to RGB at the player and outputting that to an RGB
monitor. If any further processing is done to the RGB output then
that is more steps than just using the composite. "Enhancements" are
nothing to do with it.

... Steve ..

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:38:11 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
<jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:

>Laserdisc, like C-format and Quad tape, (but not home consumer formats
>or Betacam etc.) has the video recorded as composite. Period.

Why do you people still insist on that point??????
Nobody says the disc contains component data, what I'm TRYING to say
is this: since the signal *IS* subject to some elaboration before
going out there should be an advantage in tapping the signal before
the last step.

I have a question: how do the V-DNR, Freeze frame and "special
effects" for CLV discs work?
Don't you think that at some point there should be an AD conversion?
Don't you think that to do that, the composite signal should be at
least separated in Chroma and Luma parts?

Then comes the theoretical part regarding the output:
Since the unit, besides being an LD player, is ALSO a DVD player don't
you think that maybe would be logical to use the same DA conversion
circuit that is being used for the DVD?

>Outputting the compsite to the TV then
>using the TV to detect the colour has the same number of steps as
>demodulating to RGB at the player and outputting that to an RGB
>monitor.

I disagree, we are speaking about a DVL 909 here, this unit doesn't
have an unadulterated composite signal on the output plug.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 06:52:18 GMT, NEWman
<koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:38:11 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
><jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:
>
>>Laserdisc, like C-format and Quad tape, (but not home consumer formats
>>or Betacam etc.) has the video recorded as composite. Period.
>
>Why do you people still insist on that point??????
>Nobody says the disc contains component data, what I'm TRYING to say
>is this: since the signal *IS* subject to some elaboration before
>going out there should be an advantage in tapping the signal before
>the last step.

Then you want a player that does nothing to the signal, just a basic
player like the S201, since more advanced players do have some digital
processing after the RF demodulator used to recover the baseband video
from the laser.
>
>I have a question: how do the V-DNR, Freeze frame and "special
>effects" for CLV discs work?
>Don't you think that at some point there should be an AD conversion?
>Don't you think that to do that, the composite signal should be at
>least separated in Chroma and Luma parts?

Yes, so?
>
>Then comes the theoretical part regarding the output:
>Since the unit, besides being an LD player, is ALSO a DVD player don't
>you think that maybe would be logical to use the same DA conversion
>circuit that is being used for the DVD?

An Mpeg is by its nature made up of digital information comprising
luminance, Red, and Blue. The RGB or more accurately Yuv output just
taps the appropriate data streams (this is VERY much in layman terms!
That's where the 4:2:2 and 4:1:1 desription for colour bandwidth comes
from) An Mpeg is not composite, it doesn't have to have the components
separated at any point.
>
>>Outputting the compsite to the TV then
>>using the TV to detect the colour has the same number of steps as
>>demodulating to RGB at the player and outputting that to an RGB
>>monitor.
>
>I disagree, we are speaking about a DVL 909 here, this unit doesn't
>have an unadulterated composite signal on the output plug.

So where's the advantage? The output of that player is composite, and
the TV has the comb filter and colour demodulator. If you take a
signal before the processing in the player then its still a composite
signal, except noisier.

... Steve ..
>

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:23:47 -0400, Steve(JazzHunter) <jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:


>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 06:52:18 GMT, NEWman
><koREMOVETHISteANDTHIStsu@libero.it> wrote:

>>On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:38:11 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
>><jazzhunterNotHere@internet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Laserdisc, like C-format and Quad tape, (but not home consumer formats
>>>or Betacam etc.) has the video recorded as composite. Period.
>>
>>Why do you people still insist on that point??????
>>Nobody says the disc contains component data, what I'm TRYING to say
>>is this: since the signal *IS* subject to some elaboration before
>>going out there should be an advantage in tapping the signal before
>>the last step.

>Then you want a player that does nothing to the signal, just a basic
>player like the S201, since more advanced players do have some digital
>processing after the RF demodulator used to recover the baseband video
>from the laser.

Can you name a single example of one that puts the signal through a comb filter
and then reconstructs it into a composite.