AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture - Page 198
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noob2222 said:
Would AMD have stuck with 32nm SOI had they known GF would fail to produce another SOI node?
Sure, 28nm sounds like a good thing, but think about it this way. SOI offers lower heat and lower power. so does 28nm, but apparently not at the same rate. This leads to increasing ipc by x% and dropping the clock speed by y%. Is 32nm soi better than 28nm bulk?
Would be a good question if we get an AMA for the APUs. Could be the design tools were simply better for the bulk nodes as they have more customers using them. They're using million+ dollar software tools to design these things, but they're not perfect. TSMC on bulk as well so they get some reuse on design parameters/constraints between flows. GCN was done on bulk so they get time savings there by not having to redesign it for SOI. It all comes down to costs. Time is money and they let go about 30% of their staff while taking on new custom APUs and ARM designs.
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Reply to Cazalan
juanrga
5 December 2013 11:00:45
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Reply to juanrga
Related resources
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- Wii u CPU and GPU and some Speculation insight - Forum
juanrga
5 December 2013 11:04:55
^^ referring back to your BSN(or wherever that was) article from the guy that got fired over a year ago, just before GF announced FD-SOI?
GF is the one that forced bulk only, not AMD's decision. 28nm GCN wouldn't be that hard to retro to a 28nm SOI process, but going to 32nm as calazan said would be time and cost. 28nm FD-SOI vanished with ST-Ericsson. Great, you win that arguement by default, not the reasons you gave.
GF is the one that forced bulk only, not AMD's decision. 28nm GCN wouldn't be that hard to retro to a 28nm SOI process, but going to 32nm as calazan said would be time and cost. 28nm FD-SOI vanished with ST-Ericsson. Great, you win that arguement by default, not the reasons you gave.
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Reply to noob2222
fear not d.i.y. amd lovers
"AMD sees signs of life in system builder market"
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33318-amd-sees-signs-...
...as long as you're in teh europes.
li'l bonus:
http://www.techpowerup.com/195425/asus-shows-off-radeon...
if kaveri is hiding a ninja dma bus inside it's u.n.b....
...
...
"AMD sees signs of life in system builder market"
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33318-amd-sees-signs-...
...as long as you're in teh europes.
li'l bonus:
http://www.techpowerup.com/195425/asus-shows-off-radeon...
if kaveri is hiding a ninja dma bus inside it's u.n.b....
...
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Reply to de5_Roy
palladin9479 said:
Quote:
After this generation, I expect we move toward Ray Casting.That's prohibitively expensive but I can see us heading that way in a few generations. We'll need an order of magnitude increase in Vector processing power at the minimum before we can get real time rendering at anything resembling decent resolutions. But when it happens it's going to be beautiful.
I was talking generation as being 7-8 years, or in other words, capability limited by the PS4/XB1 GPU's. Assuming dGPU's keep gaining ~15% generation over generation, simplified Ray Casting algorithms should be runnable on consumer hardware about the time this generation starts coming to a close.
And yes, its going to be beautiful, since all those really hard light-based computations we currently do are basically free as a result of Ray Casting.
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Reply to gamerk316
Yuka said:
jdwii said:
What do you do game(more FP heavy) or other things?Like I said, I don't know what is biased towards integer performance in the Desktop world, hence the question.
Cheers!
Just to answer this question...
Compiling, rendering, encryption, and compression are all integer heavy tasks.
Hence the 8350 competes very strongly in those benchmarks.
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Reply to 8350rocks
juanrga said:
@palladin9479: There are at least two companies, Intel and Nvidia, that disagree with your "APU's can't replace dedicated processors due to economics slamming into physics" mantra.Intel and NVIDIA are market leaders, and thus have the necessary cash flow to support throwing money around to keep their performance edge. AMD doesn't, as we've noted many, many times. Different economic realities are in place here; what makes sense for one doesn't for the other.
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Reply to gamerk316
tracker45
5 December 2013 13:04:25
etayorius
5 December 2013 15:46:04
tracker45 said:
They have to release at least one normal Steamroller CPU.etayorius said:
tracker45 said:
They have to release at least one normal Steamroller CPU.Sadly there is not even a slight hint about that in any of AMD roadmaps... i wish they do, but most probably not...
They may have something like the Athlon; but that isnt really "normal" as it's missing the L3....
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Reply to elemein
tracker45
5 December 2013 18:22:19
griptwister said:
I feel that this thread is barely worth commenting on... It used to exciting and factual. Now it's just drama and insults. And worst of all, it's against other fans. We're arguing over speculation here... Not even actual benchmarks... I have no idea what is going on with you guys, but I'm not taking part in it. At least Hafijur picked a team and sided with it. lol.tracker45 said:
If the prices drop on the 8350, people should just buy that instead of Steamroller. The 8350 already competes with the 2500k.
I see this processor aging quite well but i don't see the platform aging well. With newer APU's coming out that really should beat the 8350fx in any program that uses 4 cores or less i can't recommend a dying platform. For me i like to upgrade if you already have a AM3+ board then i guess it makes sense if you're still on phenom but if you feel your processor might make until your ready to buy a new board+CPU(300$ for both maybe more for ram) and then wait.
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Reply to jdwii
tracker45
5 December 2013 18:57:09
blackkstar
5 December 2013 19:23:30
You guys are realizing that for CPUs 2014 is basically going to be Kaveri and Vishera and a 14nm die shrink from Intel, where Intel has said there's no IPC increase, right? We might see Haswell-E at the end of 2014 but that's not going to be significant unless you're willing to drop a lot of money on a hex core as you can already buy Haswells.
Our best bet is to see how well Kaveri performs against Haswell and then decide if we think it'd be worthwhile for AMD to introduce a new high end platform around the time of Haswell-E and DDR4. I'm just running through some reviews and tacking on 20% for all the FX 8350 scores and comparing it to Haswell and it actually looks somewhat promising.
If AMD could deliver Excavator by that time and it was another 20% faster than Steamroller, that'd make 44% increase over Piledriver. Meaning Excavator enthusiast platform would be competing against Haswell-E. 44% increase in performance with 5 or 6 modules would actually crush Haswell-E. 50% more cores and 44% faster per core.
Then again, in regards to looking at the glass half empty or half full, I'd think that I'm probably looking at it like it's an olympic sized swimming pool full of the most delicious beer I can fathom with hot bitches surrounding me going "it's all yours blackstar-sama~~~~~"
But I suppose at the very least it's showing that it's possible to happen. Not saying it will of course. But if AMD sits on an architecture that could actually beat Haswell-E and then just messes around with APU HSA only I'm going to be so mad I'll probably just go buy some non-x86 computers and install Gentoo on them. Maybe by then I can sell off this gaming crap and buy some Power7 rigs for a reasonable rate.
Our best bet is to see how well Kaveri performs against Haswell and then decide if we think it'd be worthwhile for AMD to introduce a new high end platform around the time of Haswell-E and DDR4. I'm just running through some reviews and tacking on 20% for all the FX 8350 scores and comparing it to Haswell and it actually looks somewhat promising.
If AMD could deliver Excavator by that time and it was another 20% faster than Steamroller, that'd make 44% increase over Piledriver. Meaning Excavator enthusiast platform would be competing against Haswell-E. 44% increase in performance with 5 or 6 modules would actually crush Haswell-E. 50% more cores and 44% faster per core.
Then again, in regards to looking at the glass half empty or half full, I'd think that I'm probably looking at it like it's an olympic sized swimming pool full of the most delicious beer I can fathom with hot bitches surrounding me going "it's all yours blackstar-sama~~~~~"
But I suppose at the very least it's showing that it's possible to happen. Not saying it will of course. But if AMD sits on an architecture that could actually beat Haswell-E and then just messes around with APU HSA only I'm going to be so mad I'll probably just go buy some non-x86 computers and install Gentoo on them. Maybe by then I can sell off this gaming crap and buy some Power7 rigs for a reasonable rate.
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Reply to blackkstar
juanrga
5 December 2013 19:52:01
noob2222 said:
^^ referring back to your BSN(or wherever that was) article from the guy that got fired over a year ago, just before GF announced FD-SOI?GF SOI plans were announced at 2011 (28nm was SOI)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Science-Technology/global...
AMD decision to ditch SOI by bulk was announced a year latter by Mark Papermaster
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
This same Mark Papermaster
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corporate-information/ex...
The same Mark Papermaster who gave us the famous HotChip talk about Steamroller.
Glofo has now shown its unability to get ready the 28nm SOI process. A pair of months ago an enthusiast SOI poster here tried to convince all us that GF 28nm SOI was ready and that Kaveri delay was for the transition to SOI. It was all fake. AMD decision to migrate to bulk was a good one.
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Reply to juanrga
juanrga
5 December 2013 20:17:43
gamerk316 said:
juanrga said:
@palladin9479: There are at least two companies, Intel and Nvidia, that disagree with your "APU's can't replace dedicated processors due to economics slamming into physics" mantra.Intel and NVIDIA are market leaders, and thus have the necessary cash flow to support throwing money around to keep their performance edge. AMD doesn't, as we've noted many, many times. Different economic realities are in place here; what makes sense for one doesn't for the other.
Scientists and engineers working at AMD, Intel, and Nvidia are well aware that APUs are more powerful than a traditional dCPU + dGPU configuration. But whereas Intel and Nvidia have the money to push the research to develop the ultra-high-performance APU product, I am said that AMD has its 2011 plan parked due to lack of funds. The original AMD concept is a 8-core APU, with shared L3 cache with the iGPU, offering a total performance of ~10TF in a thermal envelope of 200-250W. The Nvidia design is also 8-core but offers >20TF.
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Reply to juanrga
etayorius
5 December 2013 20:21:38
juanrga said:
noob2222 said:
^^ referring back to your BSN(or wherever that was) article from the guy that got fired over a year ago, just before GF announced FD-SOI?GF SOI plans were announced at 2011 (28nm was SOI)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Science-Technology/global...
AMD decision to ditch SOI by bulk was announced a year latter by Mark Papermaster
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
This same Mark Papermaster
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corporate-information/ex...
The same Mark Papermaster who gave us the famous HotChip talk about Steamroller.
Glofo has now shown its unability to get ready the 28nm SOI process. A pair of months ago an enthusiast SOI poster here tried to convince all us that GF 28nm SOI was ready and that Kaveri delay was for the transition to SOI. It was all fake. AMD decision to migrate to bulk was a good one.
your first article NEVER ONCE MENTIONED 28NM SOI. I talks about 20nm SHP wich GF recently canned.
Your second article if you believe everything you read ...
Quote:
Papermaster said that the company's cooperation with ARM is mainly to satisfy client demand for comprehensive functions and to allow quick product development, and is not founded to target any specific competitor.only time will tell wether or not bulk was a good decision, a slow-down of 11% on the cpu and 15% on the GPU. It was a cheap decision as it allowed for fast implementation of GCN into all of AMD's APU products.
GF had no 28nm SOI until ST-Ericsson contracted them for their new phone chip that they wanted to produce with 28nm FD-SOI, not 20nm.
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com/2013/01/st-ericsso...
Quote:
For the folks designing smartphones and tablets (and ultimately for the end-user), that port to FD-SOI gets the NovaThor L8580:•CPUs running 35% faster and GPU and multimedia accelerators running 20% faster
...
Wondering what’s next? The 14nm FD-SOI node is already in development, the ARM Cortex-A15‘s on the radar, and the FD-SOI roadmap is already defined up the 10nm node.
If you really don't think AMD would have taken advantage of that, your delusional. AMD would be stupid not to. Remember all those GF presentations on how great FD-SOI is going to be?
What actually came next was ST-E breaking up and GF saying fk it to SOI. This was after your papermaker was told there is no soi at 28nm, but would be implemented at 20nm by GF. Now it looks like GF isn't doing any SOI past 32nm.
. The ST-E chip was fully functional in February and operating at 2.8-3.0 ghz
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Reply to noob2222
etayorius said:
AMD willl probably release a faster and upgraded version of Kaveri in late 2014, and Excavator APU by the First Half of 2015, they done it before after Trinity with Richland and i see no reason for AMD releasing a 10% faster Steamroller APU.quite possible. the reason richland came out is because amd had nothing to show for new products at that time. in the begining, richland was the codename for lower binned dual core trinity apus.
i personally would like to see amd take a stab at kaveri 1.5 with gddr5 dual imc in laptops.
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Reply to de5_Roy
blackkstar
5 December 2013 20:41:12
Spoiler
GF SOI plans were announced at 2011 (28nm was SOI)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Science-Technology/global...
AMD decision to ditch SOI by bulk was announced a year latter by Mark Papermaster
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
This same Mark Papermaster
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corporate-information/ex...
The same Mark Papermaster who gave us the famous HotChip talk about Steamroller.
Glofo has now shown its unability to get ready the 28nm SOI process. A pair of months ago an enthusiast SOI poster here tried to convince all us that GF 28nm SOI was ready and that Kaveri delay was for the transition to SOI. It was all fake. AMD decision to migrate to bulk was a good one.
your first article NEVER ONCE MENTIONED 28NM SOI. I talks about 20nm SHP wich GF canned.
Your second article if you believe everything you read ...
only time will tell wether or not bulk was a good decision, a slow-down of 11% on the cpu and 15% on the GPU. It was a cheap decision as it allowed for fast implementation of GCN into all of AMD's APU products.
GF had no 28nm SOI until ST-Ericsson contracted them for their new phone chip that they wanted to produce with 28nm FD-SOI, not 20nm.
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com/2013/01/st-ericsso...
•CPUs running 35% faster and GPU and multimedia accelerators running 20% faster
...
Wondering what’s next? The 14nm FD-SOI node is already in development, the ARM Cortex-A15‘s on the radar, and the FD-SOI roadmap is already defined up the 10nm node.
What actually came next was ST-E breaking up and GF saying fk it to SOI. This was after your papermaker was told there is no soi at 28nm, but would be implemented at 20nm by GF. Now it looks like GF isn't doing any SOI past 32nm.
. The ST-E chip was fully functional in February and operating at 2.8-3.0 ghz
noob2222 said:
juanrga said:
noob2222 said:
^^ referring back to your BSN(or wherever that was) article from the guy that got fired over a year ago, just before GF announced FD-SOI?GF SOI plans were announced at 2011 (28nm was SOI)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Science-Technology/global...
AMD decision to ditch SOI by bulk was announced a year latter by Mark Papermaster
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
This same Mark Papermaster
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corporate-information/ex...
The same Mark Papermaster who gave us the famous HotChip talk about Steamroller.
Glofo has now shown its unability to get ready the 28nm SOI process. A pair of months ago an enthusiast SOI poster here tried to convince all us that GF 28nm SOI was ready and that Kaveri delay was for the transition to SOI. It was all fake. AMD decision to migrate to bulk was a good one.
your first article NEVER ONCE MENTIONED 28NM SOI. I talks about 20nm SHP wich GF canned.
Your second article if you believe everything you read ...
Quote:
Papermaster said that the company's cooperation with ARM is mainly to satisfy client demand for comprehensive functions and to allow quick product development, and is not founded to target any specific competitor.only time will tell wether or not bulk was a good decision, a slow-down of 11% on the cpu and 15% on the GPU. It was a cheap decision as it allowed for fast implementation of GCN into all of AMD's APU products.
GF had no 28nm SOI until ST-Ericsson contracted them for their new phone chip that they wanted to produce with 28nm FD-SOI, not 20nm.
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com/2013/01/st-ericsso...
Quote:
For the folks designing smartphones and tablets (and ultimately for the end-user), that port to FD-SOI gets the NovaThor L8580:•CPUs running 35% faster and GPU and multimedia accelerators running 20% faster
...
Wondering what’s next? The 14nm FD-SOI node is already in development, the ARM Cortex-A15‘s on the radar, and the FD-SOI roadmap is already defined up the 10nm node.
What actually came next was ST-E breaking up and GF saying fk it to SOI. This was after your papermaker was told there is no soi at 28nm, but would be implemented at 20nm by GF. Now it looks like GF isn't doing any SOI past 32nm.
. The ST-E chip was fully functional in February and operating at 2.8-3.0 ghz
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=...
Where are you getting no more SOI?
This is 13 hours old and it's claiming that the CTO of Global Foundaries is declaring FD-SOI necessary for smaller nodes. There is even a slide from this presentation given 13 hours ago with ST right next to Samsung and IBM pointing directly to Global Foundaries.
EDIT: (added spoilers) and have you not picked up on it? NY fab = FD-SOI, Dresden 28nm = bulk. AMD not waiting for 28nm SOI at NY fab because they don't want to push back Kaveri even further and be stuck depending on GloFo to release a new node. Remember when Read said he was going to focus on more proven process nodes?
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Reply to blackkstar
blackkstar said:
Spoiler
GF SOI plans were announced at 2011 (28nm was SOI)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Science-Technology/global...
AMD decision to ditch SOI by bulk was announced a year latter by Mark Papermaster
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
This same Mark Papermaster
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corporate-information/ex...
The same Mark Papermaster who gave us the famous HotChip talk about Steamroller.
Glofo has now shown its unability to get ready the 28nm SOI process. A pair of months ago an enthusiast SOI poster here tried to convince all us that GF 28nm SOI was ready and that Kaveri delay was for the transition to SOI. It was all fake. AMD decision to migrate to bulk was a good one.
your first article NEVER ONCE MENTIONED 28NM SOI. I talks about 20nm SHP wich GF canned.
Your second article if you believe everything you read ...
only time will tell wether or not bulk was a good decision, a slow-down of 11% on the cpu and 15% on the GPU. It was a cheap decision as it allowed for fast implementation of GCN into all of AMD's APU products.
GF had no 28nm SOI until ST-Ericsson contracted them for their new phone chip that they wanted to produce with 28nm FD-SOI, not 20nm.
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com/2013/01/st-ericsso...
•CPUs running 35% faster and GPU and multimedia accelerators running 20% faster
...
Wondering what’s next? The 14nm FD-SOI node is already in development, the ARM Cortex-A15‘s on the radar, and the FD-SOI roadmap is already defined up the 10nm node.
What actually came next was ST-E breaking up and GF saying fk it to SOI. This was after your papermaker was told there is no soi at 28nm, but would be implemented at 20nm by GF. Now it looks like GF isn't doing any SOI past 32nm.
. The ST-E chip was fully functional in February and operating at 2.8-3.0 ghz
noob2222 said:
juanrga said:
noob2222 said:
^^ referring back to your BSN(or wherever that was) article from the guy that got fired over a year ago, just before GF announced FD-SOI?GF SOI plans were announced at 2011 (28nm was SOI)
http://www.nordichardware.com/Science-Technology/global...
AMD decision to ditch SOI by bulk was announced a year latter by Mark Papermaster
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
This same Mark Papermaster
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/corporate-information/ex...
The same Mark Papermaster who gave us the famous HotChip talk about Steamroller.
Glofo has now shown its unability to get ready the 28nm SOI process. A pair of months ago an enthusiast SOI poster here tried to convince all us that GF 28nm SOI was ready and that Kaveri delay was for the transition to SOI. It was all fake. AMD decision to migrate to bulk was a good one.
your first article NEVER ONCE MENTIONED 28NM SOI. I talks about 20nm SHP wich GF canned.
Your second article if you believe everything you read ...
Quote:
Papermaster said that the company's cooperation with ARM is mainly to satisfy client demand for comprehensive functions and to allow quick product development, and is not founded to target any specific competitor.only time will tell wether or not bulk was a good decision, a slow-down of 11% on the cpu and 15% on the GPU. It was a cheap decision as it allowed for fast implementation of GCN into all of AMD's APU products.
GF had no 28nm SOI until ST-Ericsson contracted them for their new phone chip that they wanted to produce with 28nm FD-SOI, not 20nm.
http://www.advancedsubstratenews.com/2013/01/st-ericsso...
Quote:
For the folks designing smartphones and tablets (and ultimately for the end-user), that port to FD-SOI gets the NovaThor L8580:•CPUs running 35% faster and GPU and multimedia accelerators running 20% faster
...
Wondering what’s next? The 14nm FD-SOI node is already in development, the ARM Cortex-A15‘s on the radar, and the FD-SOI roadmap is already defined up the 10nm node.
What actually came next was ST-E breaking up and GF saying fk it to SOI. This was after your papermaker was told there is no soi at 28nm, but would be implemented at 20nm by GF. Now it looks like GF isn't doing any SOI past 32nm.
. The ST-E chip was fully functional in February and operating at 2.8-3.0 ghz
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=...
Where are you getting no more SOI?
This is 13 hours old and it's claiming that the CTO of Global Foundaries is declaring FD-SOI necessary for smaller nodes. There is even a slide from this presentation given 13 hours ago with ST right next to Samsung and IBM pointing directly to Global Foundaries.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/172015-leaked-amd-roa...
.
Quote:
GF isn’t rolling out multiple types of 20nm this time around, but is pursuing a unified strategy of offering one type of silicon that can stretch to cover multiple targets.GF. SOI or no SOI ... that is the question.
Quote:
EDIT: (added spoilers) and have you not picked up on it? NY fab = FD-SOI, Dresden 28nm = bulk. AMD not waiting for 28nm SOI at NY fab because they don't want to push back Kaveri even further and be stuck depending on GloFo to release a new node. Remember when Read said he was going to focus on more proven process nodes?proven process nodes ... Is that why he jumped to bulk to see how fast the cpu can function?
Found some other interesting notes.
http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/blog/2013/12/globalfo...
30 researchers getting the axe.
The reason AMD is using GF: http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/11/18/amd...
AMD has to buy 400M in wafers this quarter (likely all kaveri) ... wonder why AMD is pushing kaveri's selling points so hard ... thats why. I would expect some red numbers for Q4 earnings as there won't be any sales from that purchase yet.
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Reply to noob2222
Ags1
5 December 2013 21:15:13
Palladin, I put up a new version of the benchmark with the requested changes at:
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/download.jsp
(Posting here because other on this thread seem to have downloaded it).
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/download.jsp
(Posting here because other on this thread seem to have downloaded it).
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Reply to Ags1
Ags1
5 December 2013 21:24:21
I made this graph showing cache performance of an 8350 (grey) and i7-2700K (green), both heavily overclocked:
![]()
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/8234095e-f69e...
For small block sizes, the caching performance predominates, and for larger block sizes the system memory predominates the results.
Does Steamroller offer any improvements in cache performance, or is it largely irrelevant as AMD are only shipping APUs without L3 cache?

http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/8234095e-f69e...
For small block sizes, the caching performance predominates, and for larger block sizes the system memory predominates the results.
Does Steamroller offer any improvements in cache performance, or is it largely irrelevant as AMD are only shipping APUs without L3 cache?
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Reply to Ags1
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/1cbd380e-ff9f...
ill play with some settings later and see how that affects things. Don't remember right now where I have everything set at as far as nb, htt, fsb.
waiting for my 290x water block still, might put it back in just to test it again if i can do it without unhooking the 6970 hoses.
^^ also looking at Gamerk's bench, his memory testing carried all the way down to 2mb and yuka's dropped off at 128k. Did GK test with a xeon to have that much caching?
ill play with some settings later and see how that affects things. Don't remember right now where I have everything set at as far as nb, htt, fsb.
waiting for my 290x water block still, might put it back in just to test it again if i can do it without unhooking the 6970 hoses.
^^ also looking at Gamerk's bench, his memory testing carried all the way down to 2mb and yuka's dropped off at 128k. Did GK test with a xeon to have that much caching?
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Reply to noob2222
Ags1
5 December 2013 22:04:31
Thanks!
Palladin's 780 doesn't score as high as it should. No idea why - it would be interesting to see where your 290X comes in - if it also comes in at the same level as a GTX770 then there is definitely something wrong with my graphics tests!
...random statistical noise? Also, the memory curve is sensitive to anything else going on on the computer.
Palladin's 780 doesn't score as high as it should. No idea why - it would be interesting to see where your 290X comes in - if it also comes in at the same level as a GTX770 then there is definitely something wrong with my graphics tests!
Quote:
also looking at Gamerk's bench, his memory testing carried all the way down to 2mb and yuka's dropped off at 128k. Did GK test with a xeon to have that much caching?...random statistical noise? Also, the memory curve is sensitive to anything else going on on the computer.
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Reply to Ags1
^^ could be, his cpu and memory aren't detected either.
Checking some others, looks more like a haswell system.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/0f004cfc-1942...
or ... now im confused, yuka's seems to be the one thats off with the drop after 128mb.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/93a871e9-4a76...
Checking some others, looks more like a haswell system.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/0f004cfc-1942...
or ... now im confused, yuka's seems to be the one thats off with the drop after 128mb.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/93a871e9-4a76...
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Reply to noob2222
Ags1
5 December 2013 22:35:57
I use wmic to get the CPU name - but it is returning 0 on GKs 'puter and only his 'puter. I'm going to try pull the data from the registry as a fallback.
^^^^If there are other things going on during the memory test, they can suppress part of the memory curve. Because it needs lots of data points, it also means I do less sampling of each point, so the results can vary a bit. From what I've seen, the curve goes off a cliff around the size of the L3 cache - which is what you would expect and 128mb looks too low.
^^^^If there are other things going on during the memory test, they can suppress part of the memory curve. Because it needs lots of data points, it also means I do less sampling of each point, so the results can vary a bit. From what I've seen, the curve goes off a cliff around the size of the L3 cache - which is what you would expect and 128mb looks too low.
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Reply to Ags1
noob2222 said:
The reason AMD is using GF: http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/11/18/amd...
AMD has to buy 400M in wafers this quarter (likely all kaveri) ... wonder why AMD is pushing kaveri's selling points so hard ... thats why. I would expect some red numbers for Q4 earnings as there won't be any sales from that purchase yet.
woa.. i didn't know about the figures. that's a lot of wafers. i thought amd changed the wafer agreement with glofo when they spun them off of amd. the deal looks exploitative towards amd. who made that? ruiz?
i remember an old roadmap partially revealed by semiaccurate where it showed glofo was supposed to manufacture some of the lower end gcn gpus... such as bonaire, oland, curacao.. if i remember correctly. if discreet gpus were mixed with... i think the wafer agreement would make a bit more sense to me. now amd has to sell apus only (or may be ramp up fx and centurions... is that why centurion prices keep dropping?)...loads of them. could have a "llano" redux if amd doesn't execute carefully.
who needs intel when amd's got glofo? i hope people will stop bringing up intel's illegal shenanigans without mentioning glofo's exploitation and incompetence when they discuss amd's poor state.
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Reply to de5_Roy
jdwii said:
I'd hate to say it but GF day's are probably numbered i bet some company will buy these guy's out one day their just completly crap. Delay this underperform here that's all they do, and talk about future products before they can even get their current ones right glofo was the 3rd biggest contract semiconductor foundry, iirc.
i'd like to know if mediatek and rockchip are exclusive to glofo or they source from other foundries. i know mediatek and rockchip have massive arm marketshare in some markets - that would not be possible without high yield, high volume socs. if mediatek's and other ulp arm socs are made on 28nm bulk version, then glofo might not have issues with the mobile nodes, just with the high performance plus node.
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Reply to de5_Roy
synce
6 December 2013 10:13:25
juanrga
6 December 2013 12:54:59
etayorius Richland was not planned originally.
![]()
It was released because Kaveri was delayed to 2014. AMD will release a Kaveri update a la Richland, in 2015, only if Excavator gets delayed, which hopefully I don't expect.
noob2222 Globalfoundries official 2011 roadmap
![]()
![]()
Mark Papermaster announcement of selecting 28nm bulk was made one year latter (2012)
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
Besides your continuous post of misinformation and lies like your "the guy who announced bulk is not more working at AMD"... I note your hypocrisy again. You complain against me when ARM is discussed in this thread, but now you use an article about SOI vs bulk to quote a part of it about ARM. You don't want ARM being discussed here but you are the first to bring up ARM to the discussion... Guess what? I am not going to bite.

It was released because Kaveri was delayed to 2014. AMD will release a Kaveri update a la Richland, in 2015, only if Excavator gets delayed, which hopefully I don't expect.
noob2222 Globalfoundries official 2011 roadmap


Mark Papermaster announcement of selecting 28nm bulk was made one year latter (2012)
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27572-amd%E2%80%99s-2...
Besides your continuous post of misinformation and lies like your "the guy who announced bulk is not more working at AMD"... I note your hypocrisy again. You complain against me when ARM is discussed in this thread, but now you use an article about SOI vs bulk to quote a part of it about ARM. You don't want ARM being discussed here but you are the first to bring up ARM to the discussion... Guess what? I am not going to bite.
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Reply to juanrga
noob2222 said:
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/1cbd380e-ff9f...ill play with some settings later and see how that affects things. Don't remember right now where I have everything set at as far as nb, htt, fsb.
waiting for my 290x water block still, might put it back in just to test it again if i can do it without unhooking the 6970 hoses.
^^ also looking at Gamerk's bench, his memory testing carried all the way down to 2mb and yuka's dropped off at 128k. Did GK test with a xeon to have that much caching?
noob2222 said:
^^ could be, his cpu and memory aren't detected either.Checking some others, looks more like a haswell system.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/0f004cfc-1942...
or ... now im confused, yuka's seems to be the one thats off with the drop after 128mb.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/93a871e9-4a76...
Standard 2600k, at stock. 8GB DDR3 (forget the brand offhand). Might be the fact I've highly tuned my Windows installation for performance, and something is getting messed up settings wise...I'll toy around over the weekend and see if i can figure out why the CPU/RAM isn't getting detected right, but the GPU is...
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Reply to gamerk316
juanrga
6 December 2013 13:02:44
Ags1 said:
Spoiler
I made this graph showing cache performance of an 8350 (grey) and i7-2700K (green), both heavily overclocked:
![]()
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/8234095e-f69e...
For small block sizes, the caching performance predominates, and for larger block sizes the system memory predominates the results.

http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/8234095e-f69e...
For small block sizes, the caching performance predominates, and for larger block sizes the system memory predominates the results.
Does Steamroller offer any improvements in cache performance, or is it largely irrelevant as AMD are only shipping APUs without L3 cache?
Steamroller includes a bigger L1 cache that improves cache misses with efficiency back to 99% and includes a faster L2 cache of the same size. I am being said that the SR L2 cache is 20% faster than in BD/PD. The remaining unknown is the performance of the new IMC.
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Reply to juanrga
juanrga
6 December 2013 13:05:45
synce said:
Kaveri sounds perfect for my future mini-ITX build. Can anyone reliably say what kind of GPU performance to expect, relative to current cards? I'm hoping at the very least it's more powerful than my laptop's GTX 560mKaveri iGPU graphics performance will be between a HD7750 DDR3 and a HD7750 GDDR5.
Kaveri iGPU compute performance will be better thanks to hUMA.
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Reply to juanrga
etayorius
6 December 2013 15:33:57
juanrga said:
synce said:
Kaveri sounds perfect for my future mini-ITX build. Can anyone reliably say what kind of GPU performance to expect, relative to current cards? I'm hoping at the very least it's more powerful than my laptop's GTX 560mKaveri iGPU graphics performance will be between a HD7750 DDR3 and a HD7750 GDDR5.
Kaveri iGPU compute performance will be better thanks to hUMA.
We know Kaveri will have greater IPC compared to Phenom, but how about actual Multithreaded performance? how much faster will Kaveri be compared to Phenom in this regard?
If Kaveri can Match or get very close to the i5 2500k performance without HSA/MANTLE, it will be a win... if it´s 10% slower or more to the i5 2500k then it will be a fail.
I really want to get Kaveri and pair it with a R9 270X or 280X, if it can get very very close to the i5 performance, with a 10-15% OC should be quite good.
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Reply to etayorius
tracker45
6 December 2013 18:38:20
etayorius said:
juanrga said:
synce said:
Kaveri sounds perfect for my future mini-ITX build. Can anyone reliably say what kind of GPU performance to expect, relative to current cards? I'm hoping at the very least it's more powerful than my laptop's GTX 560mKaveri iGPU graphics performance will be between a HD7750 DDR3 and a HD7750 GDDR5.
Kaveri iGPU compute performance will be better thanks to hUMA.
We know Kaveri will have greater IPC compared to Phenom, but how about actual Multithreaded performance? how much faster will Kaveri be compared to Phenom in this regard?
If Kaveri can Match or get very close to the i5 2500k performance without HSA/MANTLE, it will be a win... if it´s 10% slower or more to the i5 2500k then it will be a fail.
I really want to get Kaveri and pair it with a R9 270X or 280X, if it can get very very close to the i5 performance, with a 10-15% OC should be quite good.
If Kaveri is 15% faster then PII in single-core IPC, then you can calculate multithreaded performance by simply scaling that up to four cores.
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Reply to gamerk316
Ags1
6 December 2013 19:51:34
tracker45
6 December 2013 20:40:56
juanrga said:
synce said:
Kaveri sounds perfect for my future mini-ITX build. Can anyone reliably say what kind of GPU performance to expect, relative to current cards? I'm hoping at the very least it's more powerful than my laptop's GTX 560mKaveri iGPU graphics performance will be between a HD7750 DDR3 and a HD7750 GDDR5.
Kaveri iGPU compute performance will be better thanks to hUMA.
What's the nvidia equiavlent of that ?
What's the chances they release something faster in the future ?
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Reply to tracker45
szatkus
6 December 2013 22:39:56
Ags1
6 December 2013 23:03:32
gamerk316 said:
noob2222 said:
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/1cbd380e-ff9f...ill play with some settings later and see how that affects things. Don't remember right now where I have everything set at as far as nb, htt, fsb.
waiting for my 290x water block still, might put it back in just to test it again if i can do it without unhooking the 6970 hoses.
^^ also looking at Gamerk's bench, his memory testing carried all the way down to 2mb and yuka's dropped off at 128k. Did GK test with a xeon to have that much caching?
noob2222 said:
^^ could be, his cpu and memory aren't detected either.Checking some others, looks more like a haswell system.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/0f004cfc-1942...
or ... now im confused, yuka's seems to be the one thats off with the drop after 128mb.
http://www.headline-benchmark.com/results/93a871e9-4a76...
Standard 2600k, at stock. 8GB DDR3 (forget the brand offhand). Might be the fact I've highly tuned my Windows installation for performance, and something is getting messed up settings wise...I'll toy around over the weekend and see if i can figure out why the CPU/RAM isn't getting detected right, but the GPU is...
I altered the maths on the site slightly to resolve the issues of variance you could see in some scores. The system scores were giving a lot of weight to the performance found at around 4 threads (ostensibly to simulate gaming loads) but I have now dropped that as the results were a bit unreliable and varied a lot from run to run. Also, a user informed me that the 4-thread results could be massively influenced by playing with the process priority, but now I am using data points that are largely immune to that.
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Reply to Ags1
tracker45
7 December 2013 02:26:09
tracker45
7 December 2013 02:31:09
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