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  Tom's Hardware UK and Ireland Forums » Homebuilt Systems » New System Build » Build based on recent mid-range articles
 

Build based on recent mid-range articles

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Profile: stranger
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I am new to this board, having registered because I'm looking to build a new rig after a long break (my last rig the mobo had a 478 socket).

This system has been designed based on the March mid-range PC along with the one that came out a few days ago (late June). It also takes into consideration some comments posted by the author after the fact, such as this:

Quote :

I'd have to disagree with you, Moe. The motherboard was fine for an SLI system as we spec'd; although if I were to do it over, I'd choose a and two 4850's and an Intel X38 board instead of the GX2 anyway.



The system will be used for gaming and music production. Currently, gaming is mainly EverQuest2, but that will include Warhammer Online, Spore, and anything interesting over the next year or so. For music production I use Cakewalk's Sonar7 Producer Edition.

The hardware I use for music production is external USB, and if I was to update that it would move to Firewire if anything (nothing internal).

Anyway, here's what I have come up with and my reasons.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 - $194.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115018
This was simply based on the current mid-range build. I realize that there might be other CPU's that would be slightly better for games, but this one seems like it will work well for both games and music production.

CPU COOLER: CoolerMaster Hyper TX2 - $25.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103031
My plans don't include much, if any, overclocking. While I was still considering the Swiftech H20-120 from the current mid-range build, after reading about some of the mounting issues I decided I'd stick with something more conventional.

MOTHERBOARD: Asus P5E - $224.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131219
This is an example of me winging it. Based on the author's comments that he'd use an "Intel X38" mobo if he had to do it now, I picked one almost at random to fit that bill.

RAM: A-DATA 2x2GB - $169.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820211282
I didn't see anything wrong with this suggestion, so no reason to change it.

GRAPHICS: 2x Sapphire Radeon HD 4850 - $379.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814102747
Like with the motherboard, this is based on the author's "two 4850's" comment. I have no idea if these will even work with the rest of the hardware I've chosen (that's why I'm posting, not ordering).

HARD DRIVE(S): Western Digital Raptor 150GB and Western Digital Caviar 500GB - $174.99 + $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822136011
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822136073
In the benchmarks for the mid-range system, it seemed like this (from the previous mid-range build) out-performed the RAID setup from the current build. That was good enough for me - disk access speed is extremely important with my music production needs.

CASE: NZXT Tempest - $109.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811146047
I liked this suggestion because it is supposed to be pretty quiet. My only negative is that there's no external Firewire port, but right now I have nothing Firewire anyway.

POWER: FSP Group FX600-GLN - $109.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817104014
I don't know enough about PSU's to comment on this.

DVD-RW:Sony Optiarc - $23.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827118012
I'm not sure if this is the same drive suggested in the articles, but it seems close.

Total Price: $1514.88

Please let me know if there are any obvious errors in the above system, or if you have any suggestions on places where I might adjust things for better performance without a huge impact on price, or a better price without an impact on performance.

Thanks in advance,
CF


Message edited by ControlFreak on 07-01-2008 at 04:37:22 PM
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Profile: addict
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Suggestion :
CPU Fan : Xigmatek HDT-S1283, Zalman CNPS9700, or Scythe Orrochi.
PSU : 650W from Corsair.
RAM : 2x2GB DDR2 800 CL4 XMS2 Corsair or Crucial.
Dump those raptors! They don't worth the money.
DVD-RW : Samsung S203B
The rest is good.


---------------
Intel Q6600 @ 3.0GHz + ASUS P5E X38 +
4GB DDR2 1000 CL5 Mushkin + Coolermaster Dominator Xcalade 690 + Corsair VX 450W + HIS HD 3850 512MB Turbo + Seagate 500GB 7200rpm 32MB + Zalman CNPS 9700 LED + Logitec EX110 + ASUS VW198S.
WR2
Profile: Faithful Poster
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No problems/errors with the hardware you picked at all. Everything would work together very well.

The Corsair 650TX PSU guanyu210379 recommends is a nice step up in quality, costs the same and has a $20 rebate on offer ATM. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] &Tpk=650tx

The P5E X38 motherboard is a great choice. But for $5 less you can get the P5E Deluxe X48 motherboard. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131317

If your monitor resolution is greater than 1600x1200 (24" 1920x1200 LCD for example) then I think 2x 4850 in Crossfire is a really good option. For 1600x1200 and below (22" 1680x1050 widescreen LCD for example) I actually like the HD 4870 better. Not all games scale well in Crossfire and in some a single 4870 can beat CF 4850s. As far as I know EverQuest2 is one of those games that doesnt scale well in Crossfire. No one knows about WAR yet.
From the Anandtech review @ http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc [...] =3341&p=20
@ 1680x1050 FPS 1x 4870 vs 2x 4850CF
Assassins Creed: 57/53
Bioshock: 119/126
Crysis: 45/43
COD4: 99/147
ET/Quake Wars: 111/95
The Witcher: 58/70



Profile: stranger
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This is pretty much exactly what I have pending in my cart at newegg based on the same articles and tweaks you mentioned. Definitely interested in everyone's suggestions here as I'm also a bit of a newbie. My one change was to go with the e8400 given that I'll be using this more for games than multimedia apps that would (potentially) take advantage of the quad cores.

 

What OS would you go with? I'm not excited about vista but not sure if I'm going to need directx 10 at some point.

 

Let me know if you order this and how it goes.


Message edited by mike318 on 07-02-2008 at 03:19:39 AM
Lord of the Duck Clan
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Raptors are worthless unless you get the new $300 300GB one. The older ones are outpaced by current 7200RPM drives. Get rid of it.

The P5E is a good board, and its the one I use. You can get by with a P45 board like the P5Q Pro for $149, but the P5E gives you more headroom.

RAM you picked is ok. I prefer G.Skill http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231148 over Adata.

Other posters are dead on.


---------------
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] ate-modode <-- Computer Builds
Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming."-John Wooden
Profile: stranger
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Hmm .. lots of information here and I thank everyone who has posted.

I'm very confused now about a few things. For one, I will be running at 1680x1050, but plan to have a second monitor connected at 1280x1024 as well. Based on what was said, I'm now curious if I should get a single card instead of crossfire. Add to that .. if I do get a single card, am I better off with GeForce over Radeon? And if I go GeForce, should I be changing my motherboard? (You can see that I'm putting WAY too much thought into this!)

I plan to run Vista Ultimate even though I have zero experience with Vista right now.

As for the memory and psu, I'm not married to my original choices, so I'll probably swap in the Corsair PSU as suggested, and I'll look into other memory. I guess the day I pull the trigger I'll take a look at what's available as far as memory and make a final decision.

Now for the hard drives. My original plan was to go with a couple of Caviar drives until I saw the benchmarks of the RAID Caviars vs the Raptor in the article. When you're recording audio onto the drive, speed is absolutely the most important thing. Maybe I should be looking at the 2x500GB Caviars in a RAID like in the article instead .. I'm not sure.

Kinda funny that the more information I have, the harder it is to make a decision ;)

Please keep the advice coming
CF


Message edited by ControlFreak on 07-02-2008 at 06:28:57 AM
Profile: addict
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WR2 wrote :



The P5E X38 motherboard is a great choice. But for $5 less you can get the P5E Deluxe X48 motherboard. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131317




What?! Here, where I live, those X48s are still more than $40 more expensive than X38s. You guys in USA are lucky!


---------------
Intel Q6600 @ 3.0GHz + ASUS P5E X38 +
4GB DDR2 1000 CL5 Mushkin + Coolermaster Dominator Xcalade 690 + Corsair VX 450W + HIS HD 3850 512MB Turbo + Seagate 500GB 7200rpm 32MB + Zalman CNPS 9700 LED + Logitec EX110 + ASUS VW198S.
Profile: stranger
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I posted over on the Graphic Card forum about which videocard option is best at 1680x1050 with a 2nd monitor at 1280x1024. Hopefully I'll get some additional information there.

WR2
Profile: Faithful Poster
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I think you'll really like Vista (once you turn off the UAC-user account controls). I'm still using XP occasionally and I much prefer Vista.
I'm almost certain that you can settle for using Vista Home Premium over Ultimate and save $75. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6832116215
Look this article over for help on choosing the right version of Vista: http://techreport.com/articles.x/15009/10
Here is a good Vista summary and some tweaks you can look over after you order: http://forums.anandtech.com/messag [...] erthread=y

X38 vs X48 - the major differences between the versions are mostly Marketing! P5E vs P5E Deluxe - get the one less expensive.
Your RAM buying strategy is sound. Check the deals on the day you order. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820148180
In case you're buying two sets keep in mind that many rebates allow only 1 per household and factor that into the cost.

Raptor & RAID; The performance gains aren't in line with the cost. The Raptor alone is more than 10% of your total budget and won't even add 1% to your overall performance. Yes it's faster in HDD activities but your OS should already be holding the necessary data/programs in your 8GB of RAM and 8GB+ Cache on the CPU for the CPU to use. Most of the time you can get your work done faster by overclocking the CPU vs adding a speedier HDD. (Of course when the budget isnt an issue you could do both). A good single disk compromise is the Caviar SE16 640GB. It's also much cooler and quieter than the Raptor.

Any of the video card options you're thinking about will handle a 16x10 primary and 12x10 secondary monitor for basic 2D multi-tasking. In a Crossfire or SLI setup only one monitor can be used at a time when playing 3D games unless the game is specifically designed for that (such as MS Flight Simulator). You'll need to turn CF/SLI off to go back to using 2 monitors for normal multi-tasking. In a single monitor setup you can 3D game on your primary monitor and have the 2nd monitor active for 2D programs (web browser, game utilities, etc). However some games behave badly when you switch monitors (pausing the game, minimizing the window, crash, etc). I've had the best performance when playing games in windowed mode even if the window is the same size as the monitor (1680x1050 window on a 1680x1050 monitor for example). The HD 4870 vs 9800GTX or CF 4850 vs SLI 8800GT question is variable based on what games you'll actually use and if they scale well in Crossfire (like COD4) or poorly (like Assassins Creed). Not knowing what games you'll be playing in 2009 a single 4870 now with option for a 2nd in 18 months might be a good idea. But at this moment in time the CF 4850s have to be considered the best bang for the buck option.

Profile: stranger
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WR2 wrote :

Any of the video card options you're thinking about will handle a 16x10 primary and 12x10 secondary monitor for basic 2D multi-tasking. In a Crossfire or SLI setup only one monitor can be used at a time when playing 3D games unless the game is specifically designed for that (such as MS Flight Simulator). You'll need to turn CF/SLI off to go back to using 2 monitors for normal multi-tasking. In a single monitor setup you can 3D game on your primary monitor and have the 2nd monitor active for 2D programs (web browser, game utilities, etc). However some games behave badly when you switch monitors (pausing the game, minimizing the window, crash, etc). I've had the best performance when playing games in windowed mode even if the window is the same size as the monitor (1680x1050 window on a 1680x1050 monitor for example). The HD 4870 vs 9800GTX or CF 4850 vs SLI 8800GT question is variable based on what games you'll actually use and if they scale well in Crossfire (like COD4) or poorly (like Assassins Creed). Not knowing what games you'll be playing in 2009 a single 4870 now with option for a 2nd in 18 months might be a good idea. But at this moment in time the CF 4850s have to be considered the best bang for the buck option.



I usually run games (like EverQuest2) in maximized "windowed" mode. The second monitor will show live parsing, voice communications, maybe a web browser, but nothing that I need to manipulate while overly active in the primary window.

I'll be honest here .. the whole "turn CF/SLI off" thing has me kinda scared. I'm not looking to have my game video spread across 2 monitors, so would I still need to do anything like that?

I'm pretty much decided now on the 4850 CF solution unless you give me very bad news here.

CF

WR2
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ControlFreak wrote :

I'm pretty much decided now on the 4850 CF solution unless you give me very bad news here.

You would think that one little measly detail like that would be easy to ferret out from the 'Net. Not so.
2nd monitor support looks like it is a feature supported under the 8.3 version of the Catalyst driver.
"Another interesting feature of the Catalyst v8.3 drivers brings added flexibility to multi-monitor users under Windows Vista. In the past, users were required to disable CrossFire to watch certain types of video or to utilize additional monitors. But with the Catalyst v8.3 release, that is no longer the case. With cards from the X1800 series on up to today’s HD 3000 series, utilizing an extended desktop in a multi-monitor configuration does not require CrossFire to be disabled. "
From this article @ http://hothardware.com/Articles/AT [...] _and_More/
8.3 would have been March and by now you'd think there were be more info out on the 'Net and in forums that its working. It's been pretty stealthy it seems.
[:wr2:2] There are also Hotkey commands and Profile options that can be setup through the Catalyst Control Panel.

Profile: stranger
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Well .. that sucks. I really don't want to build a new system that can do less than my old system did. Sure, it will be faster, but not having a web browser up (for maps, quest info, etc) on the 2nd monitor is something I didn't expect to give up.

I guess the real question is .. is this something that should be "known" within a few weeks? I can delay things easily enough - my current rig can do what I need to do now .. it just can't do what I want to do in a few months - and I don't want to make the wrong decision here.

Thanks,
CF

WR2
Profile: Faithful Poster
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Probably the best thing to do is open a new topic on that specific topic in the Graphics section of the forums and ask if anyone has tried the dual monitor while in Crossfire mode. You could also ask that question in the ATI support forums.

Profile: stranger