Archived from groups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my choice
to two cards.

These are...
XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)

Which low profile card would everyone recommend?
Thanks

Archived from groups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

I prefer ATI cards.

Video cards with nVidia chipsets have a mixed reputation, caused mostly by the
fact that nVidia licenses its basic board design to just about any company that
wants to manufacture cards. The consequence is quality everywhere from
excellent to cheap-and-sleazy. The major issue with nVidia chips is that they
run hot. When a video card manufacturer chooses either to overclock the chip or
to provide substandard cooling (a cheap cooling fan), the chips either burn out
or begin to display wierd artifacts on the monitor screen. I replaced yet
another nVidia graphics card for a client. The card was about 4 years old and
displayed annoying shadows on the monitor in addition to what it was supposed to
display.

No matter what, pay attention to ventilation inside the computer. A graphics
card loaded with 128MB of memory is another heat source inside an already
cramped SFF chassis... Ben Myers

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:39:30 +0100, "***JB" <ignore@ignore.com.invalid> wrote:

>I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
>these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my choice
>to two cards.
>
>These are...
>XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
>PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)
>
>Which low profile card would everyone recommend?
>Thanks
>
>

Archived from groups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

> I prefer ATI cards.

Really??

> Video cards with nVidia chipsets have a mixed reputation, caused mostly by the
> fact that nVidia licenses its basic board design to just about any company that
<snip>
> >I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
> >these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my choice
> >to two cards.
> >
> >These are...
> >XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
> >PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)
> >
> >Which low profile card would everyone recommend?


ATI cards tend to be OK. Its there support that is the trouble.

There drivers (with the exception of windows) are very buggy. They
often support fewer features than there windows counterparts. They also
fail to offer 64 bit versions. If there drivers were supplied as source
this would be no problem. However they are provided only as binary,
which means that customers tend to have to bear with ATIs whim as to
when the 64 bit drivers will be realised.

(As you may have guessed, I am not very happy with ATI as before I
purchased my new 64 bit machine with a Raedon 9600SE they promised the
64 bit binary drivers would be along 'very soon'. A long time later I
am still waiting, and they are still failing to reply to my direct
queries as to when they will be released.)

-- Chris

Archived from groups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Your comments make sense. My perspective is a little more trailing edge,
servicing, upgrading and refurbishing computers... Ben Myers

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:04:18 +0100, Chris Ballance <chrisb@rosery.net> wrote:

>> I prefer ATI cards.
>
>Really??
>
>> Video cards with nVidia chipsets have a mixed reputation, caused mostly by the
>> fact that nVidia licenses its basic board design to just about any company that
><snip>
>> >I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
>> >these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my choice
>> >to two cards.
>> >
>> >These are...
>> >XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
>> >PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)
>> >
>> >Which low profile card would everyone recommend?
>
>
>ATI cards tend to be OK. Its there support that is the trouble.
>
>There drivers (with the exception of windows) are very buggy. They
>often support fewer features than there windows counterparts. They also
>fail to offer 64 bit versions. If there drivers were supplied as source
>this would be no problem. However they are provided only as binary,
>which means that customers tend to have to bear with ATIs whim as to
>when the 64 bit drivers will be realised.
>
>(As you may have guessed, I am not very happy with ATI as before I
>purchased my new 64 bit machine with a Raedon 9600SE they promised the
>64 bit binary drivers would be along 'very soon'. A long time later I
>am still waiting, and they are still failing to reply to my direct
>queries as to when they will be released.)
>
>-- Chris

Archived from groups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"***JB" wrote:
> I am looking for a Low Profile card for my HP Compaq Evo D510 SFF machine,
> these are quite difficult to find in the UK, however I've narrowed my
choice
> to two cards.
>
> These are...
> XFX Geforce FX5200 128MB DDR (Approx £35-40)
> PowerColor Radeon 9200SE 128MB (Approx £30-40)
>
> Which low profile card would everyone recommend?

Of those two cards, I would choose the FX5200. Even if the 9200 was not an
SE (very slow) version, the FX5200 would still be preferable; my information
was gleaned from this source:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/g [...] index.html

As far as the general quality of ATI vs. nVidia, there are going to be a
certain number of rabid fanb0is for either manufacturer, and they can safely
be ignored. For the rest of us, they are both good manufacturers of GPUs.

Jon

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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:13:12 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote:

>Your comments make sense. My perspective is a little more trailing edge,
>servicing, upgrading and refurbishing computers... Ben Myers
>

Yet there is nothing particularly unique about ATI card's
fans to make then last any longer, it is the weakest link on
many cards regardless of GPU brand on it.

Archived from groups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Too true. This is the price people pay for high end graphics cards with hot
chips and lots of memory. The cards consume a lot of electrical power and
produce a lot of heat which must be ventilated somehow. The space between an
AGP slot and an adjacent PCI slot is narrow, leaving little room for a
ventilating fan capable of moving many cubic feet per minute of air. The space
between slots does not really allow air to circulate freely either.

There are differences in the quality, ventilating capacity and size of cooling
fans used on graphics cards.

Nevertheless, the fact that nVidia cards are made almost exclusively by
manufacturers with widely varying quality standards (i.e. literally ANY company
willing to pay the price for the chips) argues against nVidia cards as a whole.
Still, there may be some nVidia chipset cards that are designed with reliability
in mind, and to provide adequate ventilation in a wide range of conditions.

ATI sells cards under its own brand name and also licenses its designs to other
manufacturers. I would recommend only ATI's own brand of cards rather than
others, for the same reason cited above re. nVidia. You pay more the ATI brand,
but you get what you pay for.

Simply stated, the slot design of personal computers, with one slot on top of
another, never anticipated the need for the ventilation requirelements of high
speed hot graphics cards with lotsa memory. If you install a newer AGP card,
try NOT to install any PCI card in the adjacent slot, or even the slot beyond.
Doing so leaves more space for air to circulate.

My experience with the repair of computers has to do with older computers, some
with as little as 8MB on-board memory and with slower and cooler graphics chips.
And cards wear out in such a limited environment. Now take that experience and
extrapolate it to graphics chips running twice as fast and controlling up to
256MB of memory. Imagine how long a card will last if it is made in a shoddy
manner. Speed kills. Kills graphics cards... Ben Myers

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:26:54 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:13:12 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @
>charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote:
>
>>Your comments make sense. My perspective is a little more trailing edge,
>>servicing, upgrading and refurbishing computers... Ben Myers
>>
>
>Yet there is nothing particularly unique about ATI card's
>fans to make then last any longer, it is the weakest link on
>many cards regardless of GPU brand on it.

Archived from groups: alt.os.windows-xp,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Riser cards exist for both PCI & AGP:
o Sometimes they can help cooling - or impede it
o Depends on the case cooling layout, graphics card heatsink design etc

Keeping the slot next to the AGP slot clear is a very good idea.

Remember the fan on a graphics card is just to blow air on the heatsink
o You still have to get that heated air out of the PC
o Until the heated air is removed, the grfx card fan recirculates its own hot air
---- the delta-T between case-ambient & grfx heatsink becomes less
---- the card will run hotter, and the cheap fan typically will have a shorter life
o Some cards have better heatsinks than others
---- but getting the heat out of the case is important too :-)

The BTX case design did have some benefits:
o It allowed a blow-thro direct airflow path thro inlet - CPU - Grfx - outlet
o Unfortunately it suggested a single (cheap) fan solution for all of them
---- Prescott P4 is a short-term architecture, future architecture is P-M
---- however Graphics Cards ramped very quickly in thermal output
o Passively cooled high-end graphics cards requires high airflow
---- otherwise case temperature suffers, and eventually so will the card

nVidia seen to have fewer problems than ATI.
ATI seem to be favoured by some reviewers, perhaps for reasons of
advertising or some particular application (multi-function graphics cards).
Well worth reading some reviews of the prospective cards - and there are
other branded suppliers of cards like Crucial to consider re driver quality.

Since you are looking at the non-bleeding-edge of the market, you may
want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling etc. It
has lower bandwidth than AGP - but is another option you may consider.

Driver quality does matter.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo fans & other items

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Kadaitcha Man <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message news:<4321da73cd084eb28eefa5366ca2a6b8@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np>...
> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
>
> > you may
> > want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling
> > etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
>
> <looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>

He didn't say "PCI Express", dude.

- David Prokopetz.

Archived from groups: alt.os.windows-xp,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Sir Bob wrote:
> Kadaitcha Man <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
> news:<4321da73cd084eb28eefa5366ca2a6b8@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np>...
>> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
>>
>>> you may
>>> want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling
>>> etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -
>>
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
>>
>> <looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>
>
> He didn't say "PCI Express", dude.

Are you rejecting that "PCI" includes both? That's odd on your part.

Archived from groups: alt.os.windows-xp,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Damian" <Damian@sirius.star> wrote in message
news:20pk52-d4v.nsi$h1t@spankmonkey.net...
> Sir Bob wrote:
> > Kadaitcha Man <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
> > news:<4321da73cd084eb28eefa5366ca2a6b8@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np>...
> >> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
> >>
> >>> you may
> >>> want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling
> >>> etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -
> >>
> >> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
> >>
> >> <looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>
> >
> > He didn't say "PCI Express", dude.
>
> Are you rejecting that "PCI" includes both? That's odd on your part.

No, I am simply exercising the ability to derive meaning from context.

- David Prokopetz.

Archived from groups: alt.os.windows-xp,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:e7058824e1b44e41be9873a938428874@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np...
> David Prokopetz wrote:
> > "Damian" <Damian@sirius.star> wrote in message
> > news:20pk52-d4v.nsi$h1t@spankmonkey.net...
> >> Sir Bob wrote:
> >>> Kadaitcha Man <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:<4321da73cd084eb28eefa5366ca2a6b8@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np>...
> >>>> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> you may
> >>>>> want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or
> >>>>> cooling etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -
> >>>>
> >>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> <looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>
> >>>
> >>> He didn't say "PCI Express", dude.
> >>
> >> Are you rejecting that "PCI" includes both? That's odd on your part.
> >
> > No, I am simply exercising the ability to derive meaning from context.
>
> Like, as in referring to Dorothy as he, yes?

A solid, respectable name for men in these parts.

- David Prokopetz.

Archived from groups: alt.os.windows-xp,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:0ebdcaa79b794fdc89eac223620978e0@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np...
> Sir Bob wrote:
> > Kadaitcha Man <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
> > news:<4321da73cd084eb28eefa5366ca2a6b8@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np>...
> >> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
> >>
> >>> you may
> >>> want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or cooling
> >>> etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -
> >>
> >> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
> >>
> >> <looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>
> >
> > He didn't say "PCI Express", dude.
>
> He? Dorothy? If you can't ascribe the correct gender to a common name,
who's
> going to actually bother addressing the point you made, even if it is
> steeped in your own confusion and lack of knowledge?

Let me guess, folks - Sparky here is the local troll?

- David Prokopetz.

Archived from groups: alt.os.windows-xp,24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

David Prokopetz wrote:
> "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
> news:0ebdcaa79b794fdc89eac223620978e0@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np...
>> Sir Bob wrote:
>>> Kadaitcha Man <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message
>>> news:<4321da73cd084eb28eefa5366ca2a6b8@news-text.bhandari.pvt.np>...
>>>> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> you may
>>>>> want to consider a PCI card - it may offer easier fitment or
>>>>> cooling etc. It has lower bandwidth than AGP -
>>>>
>>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
>>>>
>>>> <looks at quote from vendor for 16x PCI express card>
>>>
>>> He didn't say "PCI Express", dude.
>>
>> He? Dorothy? If you can't ascribe the correct gender to a common
>> name, who's going to actually bother addressing the point you made,
>> even if it is steeped in your own confusion and lack of knowledge?
>
> Let me guess, folks - Sparky here is the local troll?
>

If your name is "Sparky", why are you posting as David?