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i7-7700K 78-83C Spike Temps With DeepCool Gammax 400

Hello all, I just completed a InWin 805 build (see complete specs & pics below). For my CPU cooler, I'm using a DeepCool Gammax 400 in a push pull config. I acquired another fan for the gammax 400 so that I can run a push pull config for more efficient cooling. Nothing is overclocked; except for the RAM if you consider anything greater than 2133 overclocked. For the RAM I disabled XMP and manually input the timings (16-18-18-36), frequency (3466), and voltage (1.353 V). I disabled the XMP because I thought that might be causing the spikes. I've also switched my C state options (there were two options that I changed I think) from Auto to Enabled. I've been playing Dark Souls 3 in 4K, Mass Effect 3 in 4K, and I use HWInfo64 and MSI afterburner to monitor temps, frequency, etc. I noticed my CPU spiked to 83C. I'm reluctant to run Prime95 because maybe I'll see 90C? For reference, my house is kept at about 24C. At idle, my machine averages 35C, and usually while gaming it averages around 72C. However, I do get spikes up to 83 C. Mind you, it only spiked once that high. Usually if I'm gaming for a couple hours I'll see a spike of 78C somewhere. My question is, at stock frequency and voltages, should it be hitting these temps? Should I re-seat my cooler and check my TIM? I'll have to admit, this cooler wasn't the easiest to put on. In their (the Manufacturer: DeepCool) effort to make it easy to install, they actually made it much harder to keep even pressure applied at all sides of the CPU. This cooler has push pins which you have to push each one and it seats into the motherboard. I wish they had screws so I could evenly tighten it. For all I know, my TIM was pushed to one side of the CPU due to the unevenness of the heat sink install. I have plenty of airflow in my case and I've altered my fan profile and all of my 7 fans kick on to 100% once temps reach 55 C. Previously they were set to run at 100% at 65-70C.

My stock CPU voltages are set to auto and I think my VCORE is @ 1.1 something. After reading that some chips have a high stock voltage I checked all of my settings to ensure nothing was higher than it was supposed to be for stock voltages and frequencies.

I bought this cooler trying to cut corners on my build while keeping in mind that I'll upgrade to a NZXT Kraken x62 or a Swiftech H240 X2 when I want to overclock. Now, I'm considering getting the cooler a lot sooner than later. I've also considered getting a Noctura NH-D14 or one of those big cooler master heat sinks. I just don't like the brown fans of Noctura... I think they'd sell a lot more units if they used more neutral colors and incorporated RGB options. I know not everyone likes the flashy light look, but I think more people like the flashy look than that of the brown fans. A build could look classy if the whole build was pearl white and brown.

I'm thinking that I might take my heat sink off, inspect it for any inconsistencies or thermal issues. I may have also used too much thermal paste. I read some other posts about this cooler (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/768735-DeepCool-gammax-400-air-cooler-what-the-duck/page2) and the post explained that it's recommended to use the paste like butter to fill in any manufacturing inconsistencies in the metal. I didn't take that advise totally. I used about two rice sized strips when I put my heatsink on.

I think my first troubleshooting step will be to take off the heatsink, and if there's any inconsistencies or low spots I'll even them out with a super fine grit sand paper. I have a nack for working with metal and I know about the potential issues and that the copper is thin and vacuum sealed and all of that.

If that doesn't work, #2 I was thinking about getting a different cooler and/or possibly sending my chip to Sillicon Lottery to get my chip delidded. I'd do it myself just for the experience but I figure I'd rather pay to have it done right and not have to worry about messing anything up, or acquiring all of the materials and comparing which TIM to use, and/or which glue to use when putting the IHS back on.

Does anyone have experience or suggestions with this cooler and chipset? Am I thinking too much into this?


INWIN 805: Front Panel Modified for Higher Air Flow Rate
Processor: Stock Clock Rates & Voltages. KABY LAKE INTEL 7TH GENERATION CORE I7-7700K
Cooler: (Acquired Another Fan for Push Pull Config): DEEPCOOL GAMMAXX 400 CPU AIR COOLER WITH 4 HEAT PIPES 120MM PWM FAN
Motherboard: ASUS ROG STRIX Z270E GAMING LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI DVI M.2 ATX MOTHERBOARD WITH ONBOARD AC WIFI AND USB 3.1 - 8 CHANNEL AUDIO SUPREMEFX 1220A
SSD: SAMSUNG 960 EVO SERIES - 500GB NWMe M.2 INTERNAL SSD (MZ-V6E500BW)
FANS: 120MM PWM FANS ASIAHORSE SOLAR ECLIPSE HYDAULIC BEARING QUIET 1800 PRM 4 PIN CONNECTORS WITH ANTI VIBRATION RUBBER.
Power Supply: EGA SUPERNOVA 650 G2 80+ GOLD 650W FULLY MODULAAR EVGA ECO MODE 7 YEAR WARRANTY FREE POWER ON SELF TESTER 220-G2-0650-Y1 | 90% EFFICIENCY
RAM: XMP Enabled CORSAIR VENGENCE RGB 16GB DDR4 3466 (PC4-2700) C16-INTEL 100/200 SERIES PC MEMORY CMR16GX4M2C3466C16
Graphics: ASUS GEFORCE GTX 1080 8GB ROG STRIX GRAPHICS CARD (STRIX-GTX1080-A8G-GAMING)


TRY THESE LINKS PHOTOBUCKET:

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/otpowell/i7%20Build/D9593E2C-92F6-455C-81BD-CB9C9778A4A8.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/otpowell/i7%20Build/747C00B3-43EE-4532-AE3C-88228303FAC6.jpg









Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
37 answers Last reply Best Answer
More about 7700k 83c spike temps deepcool gammax 400
  1. Pics are not working because they must be hosted someplace where the full link ending in .jpg, .png, etc. is available. Imgur, tinypic, and other similar image hosting services work fine. Google drive will not work for embedded image links.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  2. That cooler should work fine for a stock configuration. Way too incapable for an overclock on that chip, but for stock clocks it should be ok. I'd say repaste and use the following guide, although intended for another cooler, as somewhat of a guide in regard to the actual physical paste application itself.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2520482/solving-temperature-issues-hyper-212-evo.html


    I would not bother with lapping the CPU lid or heatsink base. That is usually only good for about an additional drop of 1-2°C anyhow, and your problems are more in the 10-20°C range because at the stock configuration you should probably not be seeing anything over 70°C if this gens behavior is anything like other generations, which it is.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html


    Also, how many case fans do you have, where are they located and in what type of orientation (Intake or exhaust) is each fan configured for based on it's directional arrow or actual airflow?
    Reply to darkbreeze
  3. lockheedmartinengineering,

    On behalf of Tom's Moderator Team, welcome aboard!

    Don't feel alone; you're not the only person experiencing this problem. Here's a 73 page Thread that's been running on Intel's Forums since the 7700K was launched: Thermal sensor issue i7-7700k? - https://communities.intel.com/thread/110728

    Of course, the title of the Thread is misleading because the Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS) function properly, but it's still a good read. The solution is primarily fan curves (and time delay options, if available) in BIOS.

    As my esteemed colleague, darkbreeze has already suggested, Tom's has a Sticky you really should read: Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

    The problem is described in detail below. From the Guide:

    " ... Core temperatures increase and decrease instantly with changes in load.

    Intel’s specification for Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) response time is 256 milliseconds, or about 1/4th of a second. Since Windows has dozens of Processes and Services running in the background, it’s normal to see rapid and random Core temperature “spikes” or fluctuations, especially during the first few minutes after startup, which should eventually settle. Any software activity will show some percentage of CPU Utilization in Task Manager, where unnecessary Tray items, Startups, Processes and Services that contribute to excessive or continued spiking can be disabled. ... "

    " ... 6th Generation processors introduced "Speed Shift" technology in Windows 10, which responds much faster to changes in workload than "SpeedStep" due to having many more Core speed and Core voltage transition levels.

    http://imgur.com/B6z0HYp.jpgSince 7th and 8th Generation Speed Shift is twice as fast as 6th Generation, some users complain of Core temperature spikes which cause fluctuations in fan RPM at idle. Motherboard manufacturers are currently developing BIOS fixes that include separate SpeedStep and Speed Shift settings with more flexible fan curves and time delay options. ... "

    " ... Here's the operating range for Core temperature:

    Core temperatures above 85°C aren't recommended.

    http://imgur.com/Svr2si8.jpgCore temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature.

    Idle temperatures below 25°C are generally due to Ambient temperatures below 22°C. Core temperatures can vary greatly among games due to differences between CPU and GPU workloads. ... "

    Keep working with your fan curves. Increase the temperature thresholds till you find a combination that keeps your fans from spinning up during spiking events. Don't hesitate to experiment with setting your fan curves to ramp up at around 80'ish.

    The fans on the 7700K in my personal rig are set to stay at 30% idle, (no audible fan noise till about 35 to 40%) then ramp up beginning at 70°C reaching 100% RPM at 79°C. The result is that the fans only ramp up during Ambient temperatures above 26°C when running Prime95 v26.6 Small FFT's or other tests such as RealBench. During all other normal operations, the fans stay idle at 30% RPM.

    Manually reducing Core voltage (Vcore) and Load / Line Compensation (LLC) keeps the Core temperatures lower, thereby minimizing the problem. Although you're not yet overclocking, Google up a few overclocking Guides anyway, which will explain how to minimize Vcore and LLC while maintaining stability. Also, you can work with Task Manager to disable unnecessary Tray items, Startups, Processes and Services that might be contributing to the spiking problem.

    Also, concerning Prime95; more from the Guide:

    " ... Intel tests their processors under carefully controlled conditions at 100% TDP. Prime95 version 26.6 Small FFT's is ideal for CPU thermal testing, because it's a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures that typically runs Core i variants with Hyperthreading and Core 2 processors within +/- a few % of TDP. No other utility so closely replicates Intel's proprietary test conditions. This is also the utility that Real Temp uses to test Core temperature sensors.

    Prime95 v26.6 - http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=15504

    Note: Do not use Prime95 versions later than 26.6 on 2nd through 8th Generation i3, i5 or i7 CPU's, which all have AVX (Advanced Vector Extension) Instruction Sets. Prime95 versions later than 26.6 run AVX code on the CPU's Floating Point Unit (FPU) which causes unrealistic temperatures up to 20°C higher. The FPU test in the utility AIDA64 shows similar results.

    AVX can be disabled in Prime95 versions later than 26.6 by inserting "CpuSupportsAVX=0" into the "local.txt" file in Prime95's folder. However, since Core temperatures will be the same as 26.6, it's easier to just use 26.6. AVX doesn't affect Core i 1st Generation, Core 2, Pentium or Celeron processors since they don't have AVX Instruction Sets ...

    ... If you’re overclocked and run AVX apps such as for rendering or transcoding, you may need to reduce Vcore and Core speed or upgrade your cooler and case fans so Core temperatures don’t reach 85°C. Many 6th, 7th and 8th Generation motherboards address the AVX problem by providing offset adjustments in BIOS. An offset of -2 or -3 (200 or 300 MHz) is usually sufficient. Asus RealBench runs a realistic AVX workload typically within +/- a few % of TDP, and is an excellent utility for testing overall system stability, whether you're overclocked or not ... "

    Asus RealBench - http://rog.asus.com/rog-pro/realbench-v2-leaderboard/

    Concerning delidding, your thoughts about sending your 7700K to Silicon Lottery are well founded. They can also "bin" your processor, which will eliminate most of the "trial-and-error" from overclocking. (The 7700K in my personal rig is delidded). See Section 9 in the Guide; The TIM Problem.

    Here's a perspective on the magnitude of the problem:

    ... "Shown below are the thermal characteristics between different Generations of soldered and TIM’d processors:
    http://imgur.com/ajh92cV.jpgCore temperatures on earlier processors using Indium solder between the Die and IHS have consistently tight gradients within 5°C above IHS temperature, which indicates good thermal conductivity. However, Core temperatures on later Generations using TIM between the Die and IHS have inconsistent gradients up to 25°C above IHS temperature, which indicates relatively poor thermal conductivity and uniformity. ... "

    Once again, welcome aboard!

    CT :sol:
    Reply to CompuTronix
  4. darkbreeze said:
    Pics are not working because they must be hosted someplace where the full link ending in .jpg, .png, etc. is available. Imgur, tinypic, and other similar image hosting services work fine. Google drive will not work for embedded image links.




    Try it now, I re-posted with links from PhotoBucket and Imgur. Thanks for the reply!
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  5. darkbreeze said:
    That cooler should work fine for a stock configuration. Way too incapable for an overclock on that chip, but for stock clocks it should be ok. I'd say repaste and use the following guide, although intended for another cooler, as somewhat of a guide in regard to the actual physical paste application itself.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2520482/solving-temperature-issues-hyper-212-evo.html


    I would not bother with lapping the CPU lid or heatsink base. That is usually only good for about an additional drop of 1-2°C anyhow, and your problems are more in the 10-20°C range because at the stock configuration you should probably not be seeing anything over 70°C if this gens behavior is anything like other generations, which it is.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html


    Also, how many case fans do you have, where are they located and in what type of orientation (Intake or exhaust) is each fan configured for based on it's directional arrow or actual airflow?


    Thank you for such an intelligent and helpful answer darkbreeze. I have a total of five case fans on the perimeter of my case not counting the two on my heatsink and the three on my GPU, the two in the front and the two in the bottom are both intake. The rear case fan is an exhaust and the two heat sink fans are exhausting towards the back fan. All of my fans are blowing up and out towards my back fan and the heatsink fans. With the exception of my three GPU fans which point downward. As for my fan config, they are configured based on direction. I couldn't find a directional arrow, I know which way it's blowing based on the concave/convexity of the fan blades. In this case, they are blowing towards the middle fan hub and plastic supports. How would I configure it based on actual airflow? With a fog machine or something? I took a tissue and put it in my case, I can't feel that much airflow surprisingly. I mean, there's a little, but less that I had expected. I'd figure with that many fans, it would be like a whirlwind in there. After reading those posts on how to solve temperature issues, I believe I used too much TIM and it's acting like an insulator. I'm going to try and pull it back apart today. I wanted to post some screen shots of temps that I'm seeing just to document before and after temps, maybe this will help someone else in the future.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  6. CompuTronix said:
    lockheedmartinengineering,

    On behalf of Tom's Moderator Team, welcome aboard!

    Don't feel alone; you're not the only person experiencing this problem. Here's a 73 page Thread that's been running on Intel's Forums since the 7700K was launched: Thermal sensor issue i7-7700k? - https://communities.intel.com/thread/110728

    Of course, the title of the Thread is misleading because the Digital Thermal Sensors (DTS) function properly, but it's still a good read. The solution is primarily fan curves (and time delay options, if available) in BIOS.

    As my esteemed colleague, darkbreeze has already suggested, Tom's has a Sticky you really should read: Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

    The problem is described in detail below. From the Guide:

    " ... Core temperatures increase and decrease instantly with changes in load.

    Intel’s specification for Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) response time is 256 milliseconds, or about 1/4th of a second. Since Windows has dozens of Processes and Services running in the background, it’s normal to see rapid and random Core temperature “spikes” or fluctuations, especially during the first few minutes after startup, which should eventually settle. Any software activity will show some percentage of CPU Utilization in Task Manager, where unnecessary Tray items, Startups, Processes and Services that contribute to excessive or continued spiking can be disabled. ... "

    " ... 6th Generation processors introduced "Speed Shift" technology in Windows 10, which responds much faster to changes in workload than "SpeedStep" due to having many more Core speed and Core voltage transition levels.

    http://imgur.com/B6z0HYp.jpgSince 7th and 8th Generation Speed Shift is twice as fast as 6th Generation, some users complain of Core temperature spikes which cause fluctuations in fan RPM at idle. Motherboard manufacturers are currently developing BIOS fixes that include separate SpeedStep and Speed Shift settings with more flexible fan curves and time delay options. ... "

    " ... Here's the operating range for Core temperature:

    Core temperatures above 85°C aren't recommended.

    http://imgur.com/Svr2si8.jpgCore temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature.

    Idle temperatures below 25°C are generally due to Ambient temperatures below 22°C. Core temperatures can vary greatly among games due to differences between CPU and GPU workloads. ... "

    Keep working with your fan curves. Increase the temperature thresholds till you find a combination that keeps your fans from spinning up during spiking events. Don't hesitate to experiment with setting your fan curves to ramp up at around 80'ish.

    The fans on the 7700K in my personal rig are set to stay at 30% idle, (no audible fan noise till about 35 to 40%) then ramp up beginning at 70°C reaching 100% RPM at 79°C. The result is that the fans only ramp up during Ambient temperatures above 26°C when running Prime95 v26.6 Small FFT's or other tests such as RealBench. During all other normal operations, the fans stay idle at 30% RPM.

    Manually reducing Core voltage (Vcore) and Load / Line Compensation (LLC) keeps the Core temperatures lower, thereby minimizing the problem. Although you're not yet overclocking, Google up a few overclocking Guides anyway, which will explain how to minimize Vcore and LLC while maintaining stability. Also, you can work with Task Manager to disable unnecessary Tray items, Startups, Processes and Services that might be contributing to the spiking problem.

    Also, concerning Prime95; more from the Guide:

    " ... Intel tests their processors under carefully controlled conditions at 100% TDP. Prime95 version 26.6 Small FFT's is ideal for CPU thermal testing, because it's a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures that typically runs Core i variants with Hyperthreading and Core 2 processors within +/- a few % of TDP. No other utility so closely replicates Intel's proprietary test conditions. This is also the utility that Real Temp uses to test Core temperature sensors.

    Prime95 v26.6 - http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=15504

    Note: Do not use Prime95 versions later than 26.6 on 2nd through 8th Generation i3, i5 or i7 CPU's, which all have AVX (Advanced Vector Extension) Instruction Sets. Prime95 versions later than 26.6 run AVX code on the CPU's Floating Point Unit (FPU) which causes unrealistic temperatures up to 20°C higher. The FPU test in the utility AIDA64 shows similar results.

    AVX can be disabled in Prime95 versions later than 26.6 by inserting "CpuSupportsAVX=0" into the "local.txt" file in Prime95's folder. However, since Core temperatures will be the same as 26.6, it's easier to just use 26.6. AVX doesn't affect Core i 1st Generation, Core 2, Pentium or Celeron processors since they don't have AVX Instruction Sets ...

    ... If you’re overclocked and run AVX apps such as for rendering or transcoding, you may need to reduce Vcore and Core speed or upgrade your cooler and case fans so Core temperatures don’t reach 85°C. Many 6th, 7th and 8th Generation motherboards address the AVX problem by providing offset adjustments in BIOS. An offset of -2 or -3 (200 or 300 MHz) is usually sufficient. Asus RealBench runs a realistic AVX workload typically within +/- a few % of TDP, and is an excellent utility for testing overall system stability, whether you're overclocked or not ... "

    Asus RealBench - http://rog.asus.com/rog-pro/realbench-v2-leaderboard/

    Concerning delidding, your thoughts about sending your 7700K to Silicon Lottery are well founded. They can also "bin" your processor, which will eliminate most of the "trial-and-error" from overclocking. (The 7700K in my personal rig is delidded). See Section 9 in the Guide; The TIM Problem.

    Here's a perspective on the magnitude of the problem:

    ... "Shown below are the thermal characteristics between different Generations of soldered and TIM’d processors:
    http://imgur.com/ajh92cV.jpgCore temperatures on earlier processors using Indium solder between the Die and IHS have consistently tight gradients within 5°C above IHS temperature, which indicates good thermal conductivity. However, Core temperatures on later Generations using TIM between the Die and IHS have inconsistent gradients up to 25°C above IHS temperature, which indicates relatively poor thermal conductivity and uniformity. ... "

    Once again, welcome aboard!

    CT :sol:


    Thank you so much CompuTronix! I've been researching this for about a month and I don't think I would have come across this information on my own. I was thinking about the binning part as well. What do they do, they overclock it, then give me the settings for the most stable overclock? That's perhaps a good idea. I wanted to know as well, do they glue the IHS (Integrated Heat Sink, I think) back on as well? I assumed that they did. As for coolers, I may go water cooling with the NZXT Kraken x62 280mm radiator. I'd want to run a push pull config on the radiator and switch them to high static RGB fans if possible. I may switch to black cable ties too I'm not sure that I like the neon cable ties. Does anyone know if I can fit a 320mm radiator in the front of my InWin 805 if I was able to buy the Swiftech AIO? The research that I found based on case specs, I don't think that I can. I can run a dual 140mm radiator I believe which is the X240 from Swiftech or the X62 from NZXT.

    In your opinion, am I looking at the best OC cooling solutions without breaking the $300 mark? I don't want to go all out and shape my pipes and fittings and all of that, that gets expensive I've read. I want the best overclocking cooling solution that I can get while staying under 300 dollars. The delidding and binning isn't included in that budget.

    Thanks all for the warm welcome as well. It's a privilege to be among such great minds.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  7. lockheedmartinengineering,

    The parameters which Silicon Lottery uses for delidding, binning and testing are described on their website. They do a professional job and furnish a specs sheet with Vcore settings and AVX offset for your highest stable overclock ... and yes, they reseal the IHS, so the processor can be treated just as it was, straight out of the box.

    Concerning which AIO will fit into your case, I can't give you a factual or informed answer. However, the 7700K in my personal rig has been delidded and runs very cool on a front-mounted Corsair H105 (240mm x 38mm) found on sale for $94.00. I then reconfigured the unit for push-pull 120mm fans in a customized and modded, well ventilated Antec 902 V3.

    Here's the settings, conditions and results:

    TIM1 Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut IHS / Die
    TIM2 Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut IHS / Cooler
    Overclock 5.0GHz
    Vcore BIOS 1.355
    Adaptive Offset + 0.020
    LLC Level 4 of 7
    XMP Disabled
    DDR4 3200 @ 3733 / 1.360
    Fans & Pump @ 100% RPM
    Prime95 v26.6 Small FFT's 10 Min
    Ambient Temperature 22°C

    Vcore Load CPU-Z 1.373
    Core Temperature 64°C

    By far, the single most effective method to achieving the lowest possible Core temperatures on 3rd through 8th Generation processors is delidding.

    CT :sol:
    Reply to CompuTronix
  8. Is that the full or mid tower 805?
    Reply to darkbreeze
  9. darkbreeze said:
    Is that the full or mid tower 805?



    It's the mid tower 805. Thanks all for answering my questions. I browsed through the SiliconLottery website before and couldn't find where they explained their processes. I'll have to take a closer look.

    In reading the huge post addressing Intel about the temp spikes, what I took away is that it's not a real temp spike but perhaps a temp sensor issue. Even if it was hitting 85 C for a second or two, I doubt it would hurt anything. I may just let it run like this until December when I can delid and pickup a liquid cooler. I manually changed my core voltage to 1.2V and it seems to only spike to 75 C now. So I think I'm within acceptable range for now. Thank you CompuTronix for your input, my goal is to get to where you're at now in December with a 4.9 or 5.0 GHz overclock with temps under 70C at full load. Thanks darkbreeze as well, your time and input is greatly appreciated.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  10. CompuTronix said:
    lockheedmartinengineering,

    The parameters which Silicon Lottery uses for delidding, binning and testing are described on their website. They do a professional job and furnish a specs sheet with Vcore settings and AVX offset for your highest stable overclock ... and yes, they reseal the IHS, so the processor can be treated just as it was, straight out of the box.

    Concerning which AIO will fit into your case, I can't give you a factual or informed answer. However, the 7700K in my personal rig has been delidded and runs very cool on a front-mounted Corsair H105 (240mm x 38mm) found on sale for $94.00. I then reconfigured the unit for push-pull 120mm fans in a customized and modded, well ventilated Antec 902 V3.

    Here's the settings, conditions and results:

    TIM1 Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut IHS / Die
    TIM2 Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut IHS / Cooler
    Overclock 5.0GHz
    Vcore BIOS 1.355
    Adaptive Offset + 0.020
    LLC Level 4 of 7
    XMP Disabled
    DDR4 3200 @ 3733 / 1.360
    Fans & Pump @ 100% RPM
    Prime95 v26.6 Small FFT's 10 Min
    Ambient Temperature 22°C

    Vcore Load CPU-Z 1.373
    Core Temperature 64°C

    By far, the single most effective method to achieving the lowest possible Core temperatures on 3rd through 8th Generation processors is delidding.

    CT :sol:


    You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of you build would you? I'm curious now. Nice sounding system you have there. I like the corsair liquid cooler as well. From what I understand, I could potentially have more RAM clearance if I went with the Corsair cooler. The NZXT has clearance issues with certain boards because the water pipes to go the right instead of straight off the top like some liquid coolers. I think the infinity mirror looks nice on the NZXT.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  11. I don't have any current pics of my personal rig, but I'll try to take a few and get them posted.

    The Antec 900 series has been around for awhile, so they're nothing to write home about compared to more recent mid-tower cases, but they're very well ventilated. The 902 v3 was the last iteration with 3 front USB3 ports. Contrary to popular knowledge, the 900 series is highly configurable, so it can easily accommodate a front mounted 240mm radiator, if you're willing to fabricate your own mounting brackets.

    Among other purposes, I also use my personal rig as a test bed. Consequently, I'm not a big fan of AIO coolers due to premature pump failures, so I keep my big air cooler close at hand. Although the Corsair H105 doesn't have any bells or whistles (Corsair Link, RGB), it does have their thickest 240mm radiator (38mm), it's their only liquid cooler with the highest number of reviews and a 5 egg rating at Newegg.com. It's also the same AIO cooler that Silicon Lottery uses for testing and binning.

    From Silicon Lottery's website under the CPU Delid tab: https://siliconlottery.com/collections/sl/products/delid

    "Silicon Lottery Delidding and Binning for Intel Processors

    Mail in your own processor for delidding, binning, or both!
    Shipping Instructions located here.

    Delidding:

    IHS is carefully removed from the CPU.
    VRMs and contact pads are coated with liquid electric tape, if applicable.
    Stock thermal paste is replaced with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut liquid metal.
    IHS is sealed back into place, so the CPU can be treated just as if it were stock.
    We guarantee a successful delidding process, and will offer a replacement of the same processor model if any physical damage occurs during delidding.
    There is no need to replace the liquid metal over time. We've been selling delidded processors for three years without any reports of thermal degradation.

    Binning:

    We put the CPU through our standard frequency tests, just like the processors we sell.
    The maximum stable frequency we recommend for the processor when used with components on our QVL will be determined.
    Binning results and settings required will be included on your packing slip.
    Peak core temperatures under a heavy overclocked load typically decrease anywhere from 10°C to 20°C when delidded, ensuring greater stability and a longer component lifespan.

    Typical temperature improvements are listed below:

    Ivy Bridge: 10°C to 25°C
    Haswell: 10°C to 25°C
    Devil's Canyon: 7°C to 15°C
    Broadwell: 8°C to 18°C
    Skylake: 8°C to 18°C
    Kaby Lake: 12°C to 25°C
    Skylake-X (6-10 Cores): 10°C to 20°C
    Kaby Lake-X: 12°C to 25°C
    Coffee Lake: 12°C to 25°C

    Once received, it generally takes 1 business day for service to be completed. Return shipping is charged at checkout."

    You might also want to check out their Forums: http://www.overclock.net/f/18068/silicon-lottery

    CT :sol:
    Reply to CompuTronix
  12. Wow. I've got to say, and sorry, no offense meant to you or your choice of case, that I think InWin has made a HUGE error in the design of that case.

    There are no top fan locations and only a single 120mm rear exhaust fan location. That's a terrible design IMO. It's all well and good to have liquid cooling, and support for it, and it's great that there are a variety of intake fans/locations, but if you can't get the HEAT out of the case that is being transferred from all the internal components, then the rest almost doesn't matter.

    Everything inside the case is creating heat. Motherboard, GPU card, CPU, drives, radiators that are in an intake orientation (And they would have to be in this case, since there is no way to mount a radiator in an exhaust configuration) and even the power supply are all contributing to hot air inside the case.

    All those intake fan options are nearly worthless because with only a single exhaust fan, and a small one at that, there is no way to relieve the pressure differential being created by all those intake fans forcing air into a case that is unable to expel both the transferred heat AND the increased pressure, thus allowing MORE cool air to enter. If you can't get the already heated air OUT, then the intake system will struggle horribly to try and bring any more cool ambient air IN.

    This is an extreme positive pressure situation which, while it might be great for reducing dust intake, does little to facilitate efficient cooling. If they were going to only design one exaust fan into the design it should have, at minimum, have used a 140mm exhaust and a 200mm exhaust would have been a little more reasonable. Truly, for every two intake fans there needs to be at least one exhaust fan, and I prefer to see an equal number of intake and exhaust fans. Negative pressure systems have been proven to be FAR more effective at cooling than positive pressure systems, although some amount of positive pressure can be tolerated for the sake of decreasing dust being brought into the case if the design doesn't have filtration designed into it.

    Sorry, but I don't like it. I think it is highly probably to be contributing to your cooling woes, and even if you can get the CPU thermal range down to where you want it, with that kind of lack of cooling you are still seriously compromising the life of your GPU card and motherboard, not to mention things like hard drives, SSDs, NVME (This is a BIG problem as heat is a serious issue with these types of drives) and your sticks of DRAM. None of those are going to see the kind of pass through residual cooling that you want and need to see, with this type of design.

    In my opinion, and that's all it is, this type of case design is better suited to low TDP, mostly passive setups that don't particularly need a whole lot of cooling or are used more for media use than for professional applications or gaming.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  13. Thanks again CompuTronix.. I just checked out the Corsair 115i which has a 38mm radiator with RGB. Then I can add two more fans for a push pull config. The fact that silicon lottery uses it has me sold I think. I think by December I'll have this cooler with a delidded and binned processor. I'll post back once I get everything in place.. I don't think I'm going to pull my processor out to repaste because many have done that without successful results. I think the next time I pull my cooler off it will be to delid, bin, and install a new cooler. I love the idea of having a back plate for my cooler as well, no more of this push pin crap. I have an extra Z270E motherboard so I'm keeping my eyes out for sales because I'm slowly building another LGA1151 build. Probably another 7700k already delidded from silicon lottery.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  14. darkbreeze said:
    Wow. I've got to say, and sorry, no offense meant to you or your choice of case, that I think InWin has made a HUGE error in the design of that case.

    There are no top fan locations and only a single 120mm rear exhaust fan location. That's a terrible design IMO. It's all well and good to have liquid cooling, and support for it, and it's great that there are a variety of intake fans/locations, but if you can't get the HEAT out of the case that is being transferred from all the internal components, then the rest almost doesn't matter.

    Everything inside the case is creating heat. Motherboard, GPU card, CPU, drives, radiators that are in an intake orientation (And they would have to be in this case, since there is no way to mount a radiator in an exhaust configuration) and even the power supply are all contributing to hot air inside the case.

    All those intake fan options are nearly worthless because with only a single exhaust fan, and a small one at that, there is no way to relieve the pressure differential being created by all those intake fans forcing air into a case that is unable to expel both the transferred heat AND the increased pressure, thus allowing MORE cool air to enter. If you can't get the already heated air OUT, then the intake system will struggle horribly to try and bring any more cool ambient air IN.

    This is an extreme positive pressure situation which, while it might be great for reducing dust intake, does little to facilitate efficient cooling. If they were going to only design one exaust fan into the design it should have, at minimum, have used a 140mm exhaust and a 200mm exhaust would have been a little more reasonable. Truly, for every two intake fans there needs to be at least one exhaust fan, and I prefer to see an equal number of intake and exhaust fans. Negative pressure systems have been proven to be FAR more effective at cooling than positive pressure systems, although some amount of positive pressure can be tolerated for the sake of decreasing dust being brought into the case if the design doesn't have filtration designed into it.

    Sorry, but I don't like it. I think it is highly probably to be contributing to your cooling woes, and even if you can get the CPU thermal range down to where you want it, with that kind of lack of cooling you are still seriously compromising the life of your GPU card and motherboard, not to mention things like hard drives, SSDs, NVME (This is a BIG problem as heat is a serious issue with these types of drives) and your sticks of DRAM. None of those are going to see the kind of pass through residual cooling that you want and need to see, with this type of design.

    In my opinion, and that's all it is, this type of case design is better suited to low TDP, mostly passive setups that don't particularly need a whole lot of cooling or are used more for media use than for professional applications or gaming.


    No, I'm not offended at all brother and I really appreciate the honesty and time spent expressing your opinion and perspective as it is greatly valued. What if I modded the case to accommodate a 140mm fan at the back and perhaps switched the bottom two fans as exhaust fans? Or, when I mount my radiator I can have those fans exhaust out of the front of the case? I'm pretty sure it can be done (the modding with 140mm fan at the back, drill a couple holes?), it's just metal. I could probably even mod the top of the case but I'd be a little more reluctant to do that. Originally I wanted the Lian-Li PCO8 I think it is. I'm building another machine now as well because I have an extra Z270E motherboard. If you have any suggestions on a good tempered glass case, please suggest. I also like the ThermalTake tower 900 Snow Edition I think it is. I like mid or full tower.

    I know, what about those exhaust fans that they make that fit into a PCI slot? it doesn't fit into the PCI lane but it mounts in one of those metal bracket things. That might be a solution, you think?

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119065&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Case+Fans-_-N82E16835119065&gclid=CjwKCAjw7frPBRBVEiwAuDf_LcsXkq_LzT_3RNKJecy4SiKaV5gECF19tRdGPON6VGIIMteF66vNohoC3iAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  15. No bottom exhausts. Heat rises. You always want (On air cooled systems anyhow) the exhaust fans located at the top and top rear of the case. That is where the heat is, plus, it's the furthest distance from the intake fans, so you create a clean draft through the case, rather than simply having a turbulent air stream or even a direct stream from front to bottom, completely bypassing the hot pocket of air that would then exist in the rest of the case.

    Front and bottom fans are always intake. Top and rear are always exhaust. The only exception to this should be on some water cooled systems that have top mounted radiators. Sometimes you want, for whatever reason, for those to be intake, so in that case top fans can't actually be exhaust.

    I am actually in favor though of either not having top mounted radiators since you lose the ability to mount exhaust fans there, OR, seeing some case designs with both top AND bottom exhaust fans located on the rear of the case, so that you have top mounted intake radiator, front mounted intake fans, and all of it going out the rear exhaust.

    Since there are none of those, it's moot.

    This is how almost every system that is a standard tower desktop needs, and should, be configured.




    Modifying the back of your case for a 140mm fan would be an improvement at least. Adding a second modification to mount an exhaust fan at the top of the case near the back would also be a major improvement. There are kits out there for plunking holes into case panels for adding fans as well.

    I just can't believe though that a prominent case manufacturer like InWin completely looked the other way when it came to to look at best practice cooling standards on this model.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  16. HI all, I just ordered the Corsair H115i and ordered some Kryonaut Grease. Previously I used Artic Silver. Had I known that Kryonaut was better, I would have bought that instead.

    So, I’m going to install the 280mm rad in the front of my case in an intake, push-pull config, blowing air into the case. In order to get enough exhaust, I’m going to mount a 200mm 148CFM fan on the top of my case after I cut a nice hole and touch the black back up. Then, I’m going to replace my AsiaHorse 120mm 45 CFM Rear Exhaust can with an AeroCool XtremeTurbine 120mm 90CFM Fan. I als also am going to send my chip in today to get delidded and binned. Next week, I’ll probably buy two RGB Corsair Fans to mount to my radiator. Any thoughts? Do you think I’m addressing my issues with an efficient solution?
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  17. Best answer
    A front mounted H115i on a delidded and binned 7700K overclocked to ?.?GHz using no more than 1.4 Vcore should give you Core temperatures around 70°C (depending on fan curves) during 100% workload (P95 v26.6 Small FFT's) at 22°C standard ambient temperature. The additional fans will also provide good airflow and cooling throughout your case.
    Reply to CompuTronix
  18. Nice bro I can roll with 70C! Thanks all!
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  19. Hey CompuTronix, may I ask you a question about your Corsair cooler and the way you've setup your config? I've read other topics on misc forums about the Corsair Hydro series coolers. I can't remember where, but it said to hook it up so that the motherboard is not in control of the cooler but depends on Corsair Link software to regulate everything. I want the opposite, I want my motherboard to control everything because then pump and fan operation would be independent of windows. Can you tell me how you have your current configuration? I have a ASUS STRIX Z270E and I have an AIO pump header, a CPU fan header, a CPU_OPT fan header, and other headers (I think a few EXT_FAN headers) I can use to control my fans and pump. I also have a fan hub in my case that I can hook the fans to if needed. What do you recommend? I think the instructions call to hook your fans up to a splitter which is a fork off of the pump (I think) so all are controlled essentially though one CPU header and Corsair Link software which is controlled through a USB 2.0 header. I want my system to stay cool ouside of Windows, what if I want to dual boot Linux or something and can't run Corsair Link software? Also, I'd like not to run Corsair Link on startup, I already have a ton of resource monitoring programs and I don't want any of them to run on startup. I try to reduce my startup as much as possible, as I think most experienced smart people do.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  20. Do you mind if I bring another source of experience in to help with that question? I'm absolutely sure Computronix can provide you with outstanding advice on anything you want to know regarding a variety of CPU and cooling configurations, especially if they are even remotely related to any kind of Intel processor, but we also have another moderator who is undoubtedly one of the most experienced water cooling enthusiasts you're ever likely to meet regardless of whether you want to know about closed loop all in one systems or a home made five gallon bucket custom loop powered by a windmill. Well, ok, that's an exaggeration, but not by much.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  21. No I don’t mind at all, quite the opposite! Please, I’ll take
    any and all info I’m able to get and I really do appreciate it!
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  22. I don't know why case manufacturers are not adding more venting at rear of cases, I wish I could find a case that has the entire rear panel made of honeycomb type material, probably could eliminate the rear exhaust fan altogether then.

    Something that has helped my case air flow a lot was to remove all pci covers. I think this will benefit your restrictive case.

    I was surprised how much air flowed out of pci slots, this lowered case temps and therefore cpu temps. GPU is open air type cooler like yours, this heated air was mixing with intake air as top rear fan was pulling this air higher in the case and through cpu cooler.

    I learned a lot here, http://www.overclock.net/t/1491876/ways-to-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data#post_22319249
    Reply to biglizard
  23. First thing to consider with liquid cooling is that it is still air cooling - you're just displacing the exchange of heat from being a block of copper, heat pipes and fins to a liquid medium that remotely moves the thermal energy to a radiator and fins.

    Airflow is still very important and you must maintain good case airflow to maintain cool air inbound and warm air outbound.

    The biggest question will come down to whether you can actually install some form of liquid cooler in your case - whether you have mounts or room to do so. Also be aware that most big air coolers perform just as well as AIO liquid cooling, provided airflow is good.

    If you're thinking about small loops, I have tested the Swiftech H220 X2 and the EK Predator 240 personally - I recommend either if you can find them. I am pretty sure that both are at or nearing end of life, though. I'm not a huge supporter of your normal AIOs, but they do a decent job much of the time. I wouldn't hassle with anything smaller than a 2x120mm radiator unless you find a very thick 120mm or 140mm and run push/pull fans. A single, thin rad just doesn't do as well on an overclocked CPU with a high TDP...it just can't dissipate more heat in watts than being pumped into it, unless you run very good fans in both push/pull.

    If you have liquid cooling questions, let me know. I've been building watercooling loops for about 15 years.
    Reply to rubix_1011
  24. I think the main question he was wanting to address right now was whether or not he could in fact configure control of the H115i using the motherboard controls rather than the Corsair link. I honestly have no idea if this will work or not, as I have never tried to do so on the three or four previous Corsair liquid coolers I've installed.

    It seems I recall some conflicting information to the effect that on the one hand it could be done and that on the other the system would not for some reason function without the Link to control it.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  25. If a cooler has PWM control, yes, but it is based directly on the BIOS setup, but in my experience with BIOS/PWM control of pumps - it is pointless. Pumps are better off setup and just left to run at a regulated speed rather than being forced to ramp up and down based on second-increment IHS temp probe readings.

    Some of these coolers also have the ability to connect to SATA power, also.
    Reply to rubix_1011
  26. And in this case I think that means this cooler cannot be run that way since the pump is powered directly off the CPU_FAN header and controlled via USB internal header.

    But I guess it MIGHT be possible.

    http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=142574
    Reply to darkbreeze
  27. Got it! Thanks all. Hey, I received my Corsair H115i in the mail today. I'm going to send my CPU off for delidding and binning soon. I've been trying to take advice from CompuTroix and his machine config because he seems to have figured most of this out already.

    Per his post he uses Kryonaut between the IHS and the copper Corsair Heatsink (I think it's copper, it looks copper, perhaps not 100% Copper that's why he stayed away from Conductonaut?) I was reading some reviews about Kryonaut, and it says that if you have a copper heat-sink then Conductonaut has better thermal transfer and that Conductonaut will damage heatinks that aren't

    Computronix/anyone else, why did you pick Kryonaut specifically, was it just what you had lying around or did you pick it because you researched and read somewhere that it was the best combination when using Conductonaut under the IHS? I'm not worried about it at all, as I'm sure even if it is true that the difference is probably very minimal probably 0.1 C difference or something insignificant.

    Additionally, I wanted to see if anyone had any information about how to apply the Kryonaut. It seems it's thicker and harder to apply than Arctic Silver or other common TIM. I believe the directions say to either spread it with the included spreader or do an X pattern. Does anyone have experience with this so I can learn from your mistakes and not mine? lol. I guess Conductonaut will damage any heat-sink that's not copper? Maybe that's why CompuTonix chose Kryonaut because maybe the Corsair H100 heat-sink isn't 100% copper perhaps. I'm just speculating at this point but any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all for such great information and forgiving me for the newbie questions. This is my first PC build and I'm learning. My next build I'm going to get a Corsair case I think with fans at the top. I still like the Lian-Li cases, I think those have plenty of ventilation. I'm just happy I have enough skill to be able to mod things like this so it's not a great hindrance. Thank you BigLizard for the comments about removing the PCI slots. I'm not sure I want to do that just yet. I want to install a 148 CFM fan, at the top, install better fans for exhaust, and install my water cooler, then re-evaluate my temps and performance, and see how that goes. I'm afraid of opening the doors to even more dust. Not sure how valid that concern is at this point though. I'm probably already going to get a lot of dust so that probably won't matter much. I'll just try to blow it out every couple weeks with compressed air or my air compressor. Also, thank you Rubix for the great info, you are all great resources and I appreciate your help and the time you took our of your day to help me, greatly. Much appreciated all!

    As for the Corsair Link, I'll just install it per the manufacturer's instructions, then continue my research to see if a config though the motherboard might be possible. I don't see why I can't run the pump off of the AIO header then run the fans off of the CPU header and the CPU_OPT header. Maybe running two fans on each is too much amperage. The LED lights on the cooler should have a default config and light up without the Corsair Link software just like my Corsair RAM. Maybe not though, I guess I'll find out in a couple weeks once I install the cooler on my delidded processor. I have DC and PWM Modes on my headers. I'll send pics, temps, and benchmarks when it's all said and done... Thanks again ALL!!!!
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  28. darkbreeze said:
    And in this case I think that means this cooler cannot be run that way since the pump is powered directly off the CPU_FAN header and controlled via USB internal header.

    But I guess it MIGHT be possible.

    http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=142574


    Thanks DarkBreeze, I'll read this link shortly.. I made my previous post before reading this link so forgive me if any information or questions is contained in this link are in regard to the cooler config off of the motherboard. You're the best!
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  29. lockheedmartinengineering,

    Have you read our Guide yet? From Section 14 of the Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

    " ... Note 1: Delidding requires that you use only liquid metal TIM between the Die and IHS. Typical silicon TIM will fail in a relatively brief period of time. A process known as “pump-out” will cause silicon TIM to ooze out from between the Die and IHS due to thermal cycling. The most highly recommended liquid metal TIM is Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - http://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/26-conductonaut-en

    Here’s a short list in order of thermal conductivity:

    Indium - 81.8 W/mk (Used in earlier processors with soldered IHS)

    Liquid Metal TIM (IHS to Die)

    Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - 73.0 W/mk
    CoolLaboratory Liquid Ultra - 38.4 W/mk
    CoolLaboratory Liquid Pro - 32.6 W/mk

    Typical Silicon TIM (IHS to Cooler)

    Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut - 12.5 W/mk
    Arctic Silver 5 - 9.0 W/mk
    Gelid GC Extreme: 8.5 W/mk
    Arctic Cooling MX4 - 8.5 W/mk

    Thermal Paste Comparison, Part One: Applying Grease And More - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600.html

    Thermal Paste Comparison, Part Two: 39 Products Get Tested - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-performance-benchmark,3616.html

    Installing Intel's stock cooler - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qczGR4KMnY

    Choosing an aftermarket cooler:

    Air Cooling vs Water Cooling: Things You Need To Know - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2196038/air-cooling-water-cooling-things.html

    Note 2: Liquid coolers, whether high-end custom loops or All-In-One (AIO), sometimes called Closed Loop Coolers (CLC), will eventually fail. It’s not a question of if; it’s a question of when. Pumps have moving parts that wear out, so those which run 24/7/365 are prone to premature failure. AIO units are especially notorious for failures due to inferior pump quality, whereas custom loops typically use high-end pumps which have greater longevity. ... "

    If you haven't yet read our Guide, then please do so. Just click on the Read Me link in my signature below.

    CT :sol:
    Reply to CompuTronix
  30. CompuTronix said:
    lockheedmartinengineering,

    Have you read our Guide yet? From Section 14 of the Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

    " ... Note 1: Delidding requires that you use only liquid metal TIM between the Die and IHS. Typical silicon TIM will fail in a relatively brief period of time. A process known as “pump-out” will cause silicon TIM to ooze out from between the Die and IHS due to thermal cycling. The most highly recommended liquid metal TIM is Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - http://www.thermal-grizzly.com/en/products/26-conductonaut-en

    Here’s a short list in order of thermal conductivity:

    Indium - 81.8 W/mk (Used in earlier processors with soldered IHS)

    Liquid Metal TIM (IHS to Die)

    Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - 73.0 W/mk
    CoolLaboratory Liquid Ultra - 38.4 W/mk
    CoolLaboratory Liquid Pro - 32.6 W/mk

    Typical Silicon TIM (IHS to Cooler)

    Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut - 12.5 W/mk
    Arctic Silver 5 - 9.0 W/mk
    Gelid GC Extreme: 8.5 W/mk
    Arctic Cooling MX4 - 8.5 W/mk

    Thermal Paste Comparison, Part One: Applying Grease And More - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600.html

    Thermal Paste Comparison, Part Two: 39 Products Get Tested - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-performance-benchmark,3616.html

    Installing Intel's stock cooler - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qczGR4KMnY

    Choosing an aftermarket cooler:

    Air Cooling vs Water Cooling: Things You Need To Know - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2196038/air-cooling-water-cooling-things.html

    Note 2: Liquid coolers, whether high-end custom loops or All-In-One (AIO), sometimes called Closed Loop Coolers (CLC), will eventually fail. It’s not a question of if; it’s a question of when. Pumps have moving parts that wear out, so those which run 24/7/365 are prone to premature failure. AIO units are especially notorious for failures due to inferior pump quality, whereas custom loops typically use high-end pumps which have greater longevity. ... "

    If you haven't yet read our Guide, then please do so. Just click on the Read Me link in my signature below.

    CT :sol:


    Thank you CT! I did read parts of the guide I think mostly in the beginning, it seems I must have skipped that part. I’ll go back and read; I appreciate the info.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  31. Keep in mind that they are referring to the use of that between the die and IHS, so, INSIDE the CPU. Not between the IHS and the waterblock base (Heatsink). Just making sure you are not confusing the two. Those recommendations are for what you put under the CPU lid, not on top of it. If you're sending it out for delidding, that is something THEY will do, not you. At least that's my understanding.

    If they are only cracking the lid and sending it back for you to do, that seems irregular.

    I would actually NOT recommend removing the PCI slot covers. For one, it defeats the efforts of both positive AND negative pressure configurations, by creating holes in the very selfsame container you are trying to create a specific airflow path and pressure arrangement in.

    Two, it tends to create unwanted turbulence.

    Three, there isn't much need for air to escape out the back down at the bottom, by way of simple pressure release. You want the air going out where there is heat so that it carries it away. That is at the top, not at the bottom. At the bottom is where the coolest air in the case will be located and you want that to remain so that it draws residual heat and drafts it away through the exhaust fans.

    There may be some cases with configurations where that could be necessary, but if that were the case and the problem with heat was that bad my recommendation in that case would be to simply take the side panel off and leave it off until a better cooling solution was found.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  32. RIGHT! Thanks DarkBreeze, and I wasn’t confusing the two. I do understand that SiliconLottery will do the DIE/IHS part. Just wanted to get some input on the comments I saw about which paste to use between IHS/Cooler. Thanks for the PCI input as well. Im just going to cut a 200mm hole in the top of my case and put a BitFenix 148 CFM Fan up there. I might switch out my other Exhaust with a Corsair ML120 as well because I like the way it looks with a white LED and it provides more air flow than my current fan. You guys are great, thanks all for the input/info!
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  33. 200mm + 120mm is plenty good for exhaust. WIth the 2 x 140mm in the front, even going through a radiator, you'll have an acceptable amount of airflow, and probably actually a fairly decent amount. It's good that you are adding the additional exhaust because with a front mounted radiator the heat that is exhausted from the radiator is then being brought back into the case, so it's a good idea to have as good of an exhaust arrangement as you can have to keep the air exchanged fairly quickly.

    Personally, I like the idea of a top mounted radiator in an exhaust configuration, so long as there is a very good amount of front and in some cases, bottom intake airflow, so that none of the heat exchanged from the radiator makes its way back into the case but of course that's not possible with your case so it's not relevant to this configuration.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  34. darkbreeze said:
    200mm + 120mm is plenty good for exhaust. WIth the 2 x 140mm in the front, even going through a radiator, you'll have an acceptable amount of airflow, and probably actually a fairly decent amount. It's good that you are adding the additional exhaust because with a front mounted radiator the heat that is exhausted from the radiator is then being brought back into the case, so it's a good idea to have as good of an exhaust arrangement as you can have to keep the air exchanged fairly quickly.

    Personally, I like the idea of a top mounted radiator in an exhaust configuration, so long as there is a very good amount of front and in some cases, bottom intake airflow, so that none of the heat exchanged from the radiator makes its way back into the case but of course that's not possible with your case so it's not relevant to this configuration.


    Thanks DarkBreeze, I really appreciate It. I want get four of the new Corsair LL140 fans to put on my radiator.. I’m not sure, it just seems incomplete to me if some fans have LEDs and some don’t. Lol. Plus I love lights in general. These fans are getting expensive. This is truly a 4K computer when I’m done, both graphics and budge-wise. Lol. Next I want one a M.2 1TB drive, 16 more GB of Corsair RGB RAM, and down the road I want to mount a 4K tv above my monitor setup maybe. Definitely want a 4K 240 Hz monitor when the come out. Those don’t exist yet do they? In looking at the Corsair website when researching the cooler I bought, seems like Corsair considered the cooling more than InWin. I think my next case will be a Corsair, NZXT, or a Lian-Li.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
  35. General consensus has airflow moving from front to back of the case. However, there's absolutely no reason it has to be that way. Nothing stopping from using the front fan ports as exhaust for a 360/420mm liquid cooler. Intakes at the bottom, exhaust front and rear. This puts RGB fans at normal orientation, facing inside. The rear exhaust will take care of any gpu/mobo heat, that's the entire purpose of that fan, to remove trapped heat that rises, it's a holdover design from old AT cases. Cpu heat and some case heat will be dealt with by the front exhaust. Since it's such a large rad, even for just a cpu OC, fans won't need to be run at max (max volume too) so can operate at much lower rpm, having a combined total cfm at or less than the faster spinning intakes on the bottom.

    With side panel windows, tempered glass, RGB etc, and the removal of the optical bay access, most are far more interested in the side view of a pc and far less needing access to the front, so sideways exhaust from front/rear is more available as an option than before.
    Reply to Karadjgne
  36. Actually, old AT style cases did not have top mounted exhaust fans. If they had an exhaust fan at all, which many did not, they had a middle mounted one just below the power supply which was top mounted and often these power supplies had their internal side open (Grill or mesh or slots) and had rear exhaust fans at the back of the power supply or sometimes the fan was located at the internal opening blowing out through the grill/slotted back panel of the PSU. In either configuration the power supply was in some cases the only exhaust fan in the system which was also a bad design because the constant exposure to case heat caused many early PSU deaths due to a lack of ability to adequately cool itself which is why the changes to a bottom mounted power supply came about in the first place.


    Example:




    Regardless, you can set things up any way you like, regardless of what is normally done or considered as standard arrangement, but there are good reasons for these standard arrangements which is that they have been found to be the most effective. My point I guess was that arrangements that use intake to bring heat into the case from a radiator or at the top where all the heat tends to accumulate are probably not the most efficient of designs but clearly it's been proven that they CAN work that way since there are plenty of people running those types of configurations.
    Reply to darkbreeze
  37. THANKS all! I really appreciate the feedback. I think I’m going to wrap up my plan by January and then focus my attention on other EE projects I have going on.
    Reply to lockheedmartinengineering
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