Balancing Budget and Performance

I am looking to build a new computer but am afraid that everytime I start piecing things together I run into vicious scope creep. Since my total budget is 1600.00 (Canadian, taxes in) and must include a copy of windows as well as a monitor, and keyboard, I realize I won't be getting into 4k. I sort of feel like 1440p is a waste for me and will be satisfied with 1080 until the early adopters tax for 4k comes down. I also know that they're is no such thing as future-proofing, but I want to put a couple hundred dollars into the machine every couple of years instead of saving $2000+ for a purchase all at once. Thus, I thought I'd come here for help.

I was given a GTX 960 so while it isn't the best card, it will probably do for now.

Please help me come up with a quality build with a strong mobo and PCU that will allow me to upgrade other items as necessary. One last tidbit, the mobo needs wifi as the computer will likely live away from the modem /router (unless it is possible to get some sort of adapter for my old computer)

Save me from myself. Please.
Reply to rob.salewytsch
196 answers Last reply
More about balancing budget performance
  1. Here's one complete build for you to consider (color theme: black).

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel - Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($293.50 @ shopRBC)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer i32 CPU Cooler ($41.63 @ Amazon Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - Z270 PC MATE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($158.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Corsair - 450D ATX Mid Tower Case ($139.99 @ Memory Express)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($111.12 @ DirectCanada)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: AOC - G2460PF 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor ($258.36 @ Amazon Canada)
    Total: $1533.01
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 07:28 EDT-0400

    Few words

    CPU
    Put in i5-7600K CPU that is great for gaming and you can even OC it if you like.

    CPU Cooler
    Added Arctic Freezer i32 which is a solid mid-sized (150mm tall) CPU cooler. You can increase CPU cooling performance even further by adding any 120mm fan for it to create push-pull.
    The same cooler also cools my i5-6600K in my Skylake build (full specs with pics in my sig).
    review: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/arctic-freezer-i32-cooler,review-33860.html

    MoBo
    Picked a MSI MoBo for your build that isn't rich in features but enough for solid gaming rig. MoBo also has 2x M.2 SSD slots and nice classy black theme.
    specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z270-PC-MATE.html

    RAM
    For serious gaming, added 2x 8GB (16GB) of DDR4 RAM that you can run with speeds up to 3000 Mhz.

    SSD
    For OS drive, added great performing Samsung 850 Evo (250GB).
    I also have Samsung 850 Evo in use with my Haswell build but mine is 500GB in size.

    HDD
    And for data storage, added WD Blue (1TB).
    I also have WD Blue 1TB HDDs in use, 2x in Skylake build and 2x in Haswell build.

    GPU
    Added the GTX 960 you already have to the build list and marked it as purchased.

    Case
    Since choosing a case is completely a personal choice i went with a Corsair 450D that has plenty of features while still looking good. Feel free to switch it out if you don't like it.
    My Haswell build sits in a very similar case to 450D, a 750D Airflow Edition.
    video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bmDAfZha44
    specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case

    PSU
    While your PC would do just fine with 500W range PSU, but after reading your possible 4K gaming in the future, i added a 650W PSU to your build, so you can throw GTX 1080 Ti into there without needing to upgrade your PSU to more powerful one. Seasonic Focus+ 650 is the latest PSU line from Seasonic and it comes with 10 years of warranty.
    Oh, all semi- and fully-modular Seasonic PSUs are also compatible with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables. To match my Skylake's black & red theme and Haswell's black & blue theme, i have replaced the stock black power cables with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables (red colored for Skylake and blue colored for Haswell).
    cablemod: https://cablemod.com/products/?filter_series=se-series&show_products=48

    OS
    Added Win 10 Home 64-bit.

    Wi-fi card
    Since you need a wi-fi connection to your PC, i added PCI-E x1 wi-fi card that also has Bluetooth for additional peripherals connection (e.g headset).

    Monitor
    Added 24", 144 Hz, 1ms, 1080p monitor for your build that does great in gaming due to the low response time and high refresh rate.
    review: https://www.monitornerds.com/aoc-g2460pf-review/

    KB
    Didn't add a KB since choosing that is completely a personal choice. Instead, left some free money so you can pick the KB you like the most, either with a membrane (cheaper) or mechanical (more expensive) switches.
    Reply to Aeacus
  2. Aeacus said:
    Here's one complete build for you to consider (color theme: black).

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel - Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($293.50 @ shopRBC)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer i32 CPU Cooler ($41.63 @ Amazon Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - Z270 PC MATE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($158.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Corsair - 450D ATX Mid Tower Case ($139.99 @ Memory Express)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($111.12 @ DirectCanada)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: AOC - G2460PF 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor ($258.36 @ Amazon Canada)
    Total: $1533.01
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 07:28 EDT-0400

    Few words

    CPU
    Put in i5-7600K CPU that is great for gaming and you can even OC it if you like.

    CPU Cooler
    Added Arctic Freezer i32 which is a solid mid-sized (150mm tall) CPU cooler. You can increase CPU cooling performance even further by adding any 120mm fan for it to create push-pull.
    The same cooler also cools my i5-6600K in my Skylake build (full specs with pics in my sig).
    review: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/arctic-freezer-i32-cooler,review-33860.html

    MoBo
    Picked a MSI MoBo for your build that isn't rich in features but enough for solid gaming rig. MoBo also has 2x M.2 SSD slots and nice classy black theme.
    specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z270-PC-MATE.html

    RAM
    For serious gaming, added 2x 8GB (16GB) of DDR4 RAM that you can run with speeds up to 3000 Mhz.

    SSD
    For OS drive, added great performing Samsung 850 Evo (250GB).
    I also have Samsung 850 Evo in use with my Haswell build but mine is 500GB in size.

    HDD
    And for data storage, added WD Blue (1TB).
    I also have WD Blue 1TB HDDs in use, 2x in Skylake build and 2x in Haswell build.

    GPU
    Added the GTX 960 you already have to the build list and marked it as purchased.

    Case
    Since choosing a case is completely a personal choice i went with a Corsair 450D that has plenty of features while still looking good. Feel free to switch it out if you don't like it.
    My Haswell build sits in a very similar case to 450D, a 750D Airflow Edition.
    video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bmDAfZha44
    specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-eu/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case

    PSU
    While your PC would do just fine with 500W range PSU, but after reading your possible 4K gaming in the future, i added a 650W PSU to your build, so you can throw GTX 1080 Ti into there without needing to upgrade your PSU to more powerful one. Seasonic Focus+ 650 is the latest PSU line from Seasonic and it comes with 10 years of warranty.
    Oh, all semi- and fully-modular Seasonic PSUs are also compatible with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables. To match my Skylake's black & red theme and Haswell's black & blue theme, i have replaced the stock black power cables with CableMod SE-series custom sleeved power cables (red colored for Skylake and blue colored for Haswell).
    cablemod: https://cablemod.com/products/?filter_series=se-series&show_products=48

    OS
    Added Win 10 Home 64-bit.

    Wi-fi card
    Since you need a wi-fi connection to your PC, i added PCI-E x1 wi-fi card that also has Bluetooth for additional peripherals connection (e.g headset).

    Monitor
    Added 24", 144 Hz, 1ms, 1080p monitor for your build that does great in gaming due to the low response time and high refresh rate.
    review: https://www.monitornerds.com/aoc-g2460pf-review/

    KB
    Didn't add a KB since choosing that is completely a personal choice. Instead, left some free money so you can pick the KB you like the most, either with a membrane (cheaper) or mechanical (more expensive) switches.


    Thank you for such a detailed response. I appreciate the time you took to provide some context to your choices. If you don't mind, I like to inquire a little further about some things.

    1) CPU - Why did you choose an i5-7600k when I can get a Ryzen 5 1600k for the same price? According to cpubenchmark.net, the Ryzen provides 42% more performance and also handily wins in the performance to price ratio? Would the Ryzen, which also gives me six 6 cores instead of 4 not serve me better going into the future for when I pick up a new GPU (1080ti or similar). I've never OC'd before and am hesitant to do so, but feel like it could add some longevity to the system. Is that a reasonable assumption?

    2) CPU Cooler - Similarly, the 1600 (not 1600k) typically comes with a wraith spire cooler. Is this comparable to the ARCTIC - Freezer i32 you listed?

    3) Mobo - Does this need to change if I go Ryzen?

    4) Case - Are all cases created equally? I've read review after review and sometimes I see things about how certain cases make certain components hard to fit, or whatever and don't know how to ensure everything fits. Is there a computer building website/app/program that checks all the components. I know pcpartpicker has a compatibility checker, but I wasn't sure if cases are really checked in that way.

    5) Wireless Network Adapter - Little confused on this one. If I get a mobo with wifi, do I need this? Or do mobo's with wifi cost more than a mobo without wifi + a spearate wireless network adapter?

    6) Do I need a separate sound card?

    7) Keyboard - Although a personal choice, do you have any experience with the Razer Ornata Chroma? I've read that it is a pretty good balance of both worlds.

    I'm on board with the selections of RAM, Storage, GPU, PSU, Monitor, OS. However, if RAM prices fluctuate or I find a flash sale, does the brand matter?
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  3. Q&A

    1. While Ryzen CPU has more cores and threads than Intel counterpart, it all depends on what is the main use of the PC. Since you are mostly gaming with your PC, i picked Intel CPU which has far better single- and quad-core performance than AMD chips. This means that any task that uses 1 to 4 cores (including all web browsing and most games), the Intel CPU is better. Though, AMD chips have great multi-core performance and that comes handy in applications that use more than 4 cores at any given time. Most known such applications are video rendering software (e.g Adobe After Effect). For gaming aspect, Ryzen is only good to use when you stream your gameplay via Twitch or similar platform.
    If you don't do any streaming, Intel chip is best used for gaming. But if you stream and add additional load to the CPU, AMD's chips are best used.
    Here's also comparison between i5-7600K and Ryzen 5 1600X,
    link: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X-vs-Intel-Core-i5-7600K/3920vs3885

    CPU OC does add longevity to the CPU since when your CPU is getting slow, you can OC it to get more power out from it. Though, i have yet to meet a game where my i5-6600K struggles, with or without CPU OC.

    2. If you go with Ryzen build then you'll need Arctic Freezer A32 since that one comes with AMD mounting bracket. I32 what i included to your build has only Intel mounting bracket.

    While AMD Wraith cooler is better than Intel's stock CPU cooler, it's still at the low end and most aftermarket CPU coolers will outperform it, including Arctic Freezer A32. Though, to keep the initial cost down and if you go with Ryzen 5 1600, the AMD Wraith cooler will do. You can even put a low-level OC on your CPU. But with medium- or high-level CPU OC, you'll need a better CPU cooler than the stock one.

    3. Yes. Intel Kaby Lake CPUs use 200-series MoBos while AMD Ryzen CPUs use 300-series MoBos. For Ryzen build, you'll need A320, B350 or X370 chipset MoBo. Note: only B350 and X370 chipsets offer CPU OC.

    4. No. With cases, the price is a good indicator of the build quality. While Corsair cases are on the premium side of PC cases, their build quality is also excellent. Phanteks is another case maker who's build quality rivals Corsair's.

    Pcpp does check the GPU length compatibility with a picked case since that is the most common clearance issue with cases. Though, there are also other fail-safes in place. For example, if you PC case supports CPU cooler up to the 155mm tall then selecting CPU cooler, pcpp won't display any taller CPU coolers (e.g 163mm tall).

    5. MoBos with built-in wi-fi are usually small ITX MoBos. Though, there are ATX MoBos too that have built-in wi-fi but those MoBos are high-end and usually come with premium price.
    ITX example for Ryzen CPU: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/nG98TW/asrock-ab350-gaming-itxac-mini-itx-am4-motherboard-ab350-gaming-itxac
    ATX example for Ryzen CPU: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/qRcMnQ/asus-crosshair-vi-hero-wi-fi-ac-atx-am4-motherboard-crosshair-vi-hero-wi-fi-ac

    Since the MSI MoBo i included doesn't have built-in wi-fi, i added a dedicated wi-fi card for your build, so that you don't need cable connection to connect your PC to the net.

    6. No. All MoBos have built-in sound card and most users are happy with the quality it provides (including me). Nowadays, dedicated sound cards are for audiophiles.

    7. No, i have no experience with any Razer products (KB and mice). But reading from reviews, it's a membrane KB that wants to be mechanical KB while feeling "mushy" to type.
    I have Corsair Strafe RGB KB with Cherry MX Silent switches in use with my Skylake build and coming from membrane KB, mechanical KB is way better, both feel wise and looks wise. Though, all that goodness is also backed up with a premium price tag.
    Strafe RGB specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/strafe-rgb-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-cherry-mx-silent

    With the price tag of Razer Ornata Chroma ($99.99 CAD), you can almost get Corsair Strafe mechanical KB without RGB but with Cherry MX switches,
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/dJbkcf,GHBrxr,N4dFf7,BcH48d/
    Note: For Corsair Strafe you can choose between Cherry MX Blue, Red, Brown or Silent switches.

    8. For RAM, the brand doesn't matter. What matters is the speed (Mhz) of the RAM. You can go with G.Skill, Crucial, Kingston etc RAM if you like. For example, in my Skylake build, i have Kingston Savage 3000 Mhz RAM in use (which is very hard to find).

    I can compose a Ryzen build for you too if you want to go with the red team.
    Reply to Aeacus
  4. Aeacus said:
    Q&A

    1. While Ryzen CPU has more cores and threads than Intel counterpart, it all depends on what is the main use of the PC. Since you are mostly gaming with your PC, i picked Intel CPU which has far better single- and quad-core performance than AMD chips. This means that any task that uses 1 to 4 cores (including all web browsing and most games), the Intel CPU is better. Though, AMD chips have great multi-core performance and that comes handy in applications that use more than 4 cores at any given time. Most known such applications are video rendering software (e.g Adobe After Effect). For gaming aspect, Ryzen is only good to use when you stream your gameplay via Twitch or similar platform.
    If you don't do any streaming, Intel chip is best used for gaming. But if you stream and add additional load to the CPU, AMD's chips are best used.
    Here's also comparison between i5-7600K and Ryzen 5 1600X,
    link: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X-vs-Intel-Core-i5-7600K/3920vs3885

    CPU OC does add longevity to the CPU since when your CPU is getting slow, you can OC it to get more power out from it. Though, i have yet to meet a game where my i5-6600K struggles, with or without CPU OC.

    2. If you go with Ryzen build then you'll need Arctic Freezer A32 since that one comes with AMD mounting bracket. I32 what i included to your build has only Intel mounting bracket.

    While AMD Wraith cooler is better than Intel's stock CPU cooler, it's still at the low end and most aftermarket CPU coolers will outperform it, including Arctic Freezer A32. Though, to keep the initial cost down and if you go with Ryzen 5 1600, the AMD Wraith cooler will do. You can even put a low-level OC on your CPU. But with medium- or high-level CPU OC, you'll need a better CPU cooler than the stock one.

    3. Yes. Intel Kaby Lake CPUs use 200-series MoBos while AMD Ryzen CPUs use 300-series MoBos. For Ryzen build, you'll need A320, B350 or X370 chipset MoBo. Note: only B350 and X370 chipsets offer CPU OC.

    4. No. With cases, the price is a good indicator of the build quality. While Corsair cases are on the premium side of PC cases, their build quality is also excellent. Phanteks is another case maker who's build quality rivals Corsair's.

    Pcpp does check the GPU length compatibility with a picked case since that is the most common clearance issue with cases. Though, there are also other fail-safes in place. For example, if you PC case supports CPU cooler up to the 155mm tall then selecting CPU cooler, pcpp won't display any taller CPU coolers (e.g 163mm tall).

    5. MoBos with built-in wi-fi are usually small ITX MoBos. Though, there are ATX MoBos too that have built-in wi-fi but those MoBos are high-end and usually come with premium price.
    ITX example for Ryzen CPU: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/nG98TW/asrock-ab350-gaming-itxac-mini-itx-am4-motherboard-ab350-gaming-itxac
    ATX example for Ryzen CPU: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/qRcMnQ/asus-crosshair-vi-hero-wi-fi-ac-atx-am4-motherboard-crosshair-vi-hero-wi-fi-ac

    Since the MSI MoBo i included doesn't have built-in wi-fi, i added a dedicated wi-fi card for your build, so that you don't need cable connection to connect your PC to the net.

    6. No. All MoBos have built-in sound card and most users are happy with the quality it provides (including me). Nowadays, dedicated sound cards are for audiophiles.

    7. No, i have no experience with any Razer products (KB and mice). But reading from reviews, it's a membrane KB that wants to be mechanical KB while feeling "mushy" to type.
    I have Corsair Strafe RGB KB with Cherry MX Silent switches in use with my Skylake build and coming from membrane KB, mechanical KB is way better, both feel wise and looks wise. Though, all that goodness is also backed up with a premium price tag.
    Strafe RGB specs: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/strafe-rgb-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-cherry-mx-silent

    With the price tag of Razer Ornata Chroma ($99.99 CAD), you can almost get Corsair Strafe mechanical KB without RGB but with Cherry MX switches,
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/dJbkcf,GHBrxr,N4dFf7,BcH48d/
    Note: For Corsair Strafe you can choose between Cherry MX Blue, Red, Brown or Silent switches.

    8. For RAM, the brand doesn't matter. What matters is the speed (Mhz) of the RAM. You can go with G.Skill, Crucial, Kingston etc RAM if you like. For example, in my Skylake build, i have Kingston Savage 3000 Mhz RAM in use (which is very hard to find).

    I can compose a Ryzen build for you too if you want to go with the red team.


    I would like to take you up on the AMD build offer as well. The computer will likely end up in my office and thus be used for more than just gaming. But if I have two build options, I can see what deals come about for Black Friday and pull the trigger and let cost weigh in at the end. I feel like Ryzen might allow for more upgrading piece by piece than any 4 core i5 or i7.

    How do you like this case? (Just starting to look)
    https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811854054

    Oh and one last thought. A friend of mine said I am crazy to spend 1600 on a computer for just 1080 and that it can be done for much less, but in a few years I would need an entirely new build as it would be outdated. Any thoughts on a statement like that?

    Here's me taking a crack at an AMD. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/R2f9gL
    This has me at $1600 but I haven't factored in taxes which at 13% puts me up in mid $1800's which is no good. How low could this get come Black Friday?

    Show me how I can cut some corners. (One could be a keyboard and just get a basic membrane for like 15.00 and save that for a later purchase.)
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  5. Reply to Kasper Jorgensen
  6. 1600X build if your not scared to overclock you can get the 1600 and overclock it to the same speed for less money.
    Depending on the games you play for the monitor I prefer a IPS monitor instead of the faster but I don't play a bunch of twitch shooter games. With a very good case. The window version if you wish. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/yLDzK8/fractal-design-case-fdcadefsbkw

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: Corsair - H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($79.98 @ DirectCanada)
    Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($121.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: Team - Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.99 @ NCIX)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.75 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: Acer - R240HY bidx 23.8" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor ($149.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Keyboard: Thermaltake - CHALLENGER PRIME Wired Gaming Keyboard ($36.98 @ DirectCanada)
    Total: $1327.09
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 18:29 EDT-0400
    Reply to Zerk2012
  7. rob.salewytsch said:
    I would like to take you up on the AMD build offer as well. The computer will likely end up in my office and thus be used for more than just gaming. But if I have two build options, I can see what deals come about for Black Friday and pull the trigger and let cost weigh in at the end. I feel like Ryzen might allow for more upgrading piece by piece than any 4 core i5 or i7.

    How do you like this case? (Just starting to look)
    https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811854054

    Oh and one last thought. A friend of mine said I am crazy to spend 1600 on a computer for just 1080 and that it can be done for much less, but in a few years I would need an entirely new build as it would be outdated. Any thoughts on a statement like that?

    Here's me taking a crack at an AMD. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/R2f9gL
    This has me at $1600 but I haven't factored in taxes which at 13% puts me up in mid $1800's which is no good. How low could this get come Black Friday?

    Show me how I can cut some corners. (One could be a keyboard and just get a basic membrane for like 15.00 and save that for a later purchase.)

    Here's the Ryzen build (color theme: black with small touches of red)

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer 33 CPU Cooler ($46.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350 PC MATE ATX AM4 Motherboard ($118.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400S TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.75 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: AOC - G2460PF 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor ($255.84 @ Amazon Canada)
    Keyboard: Corsair - STRAFE Wired Gaming Keyboard ($109.99 @ Memory Express)
    Total: $1574.96
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 20:04 EDT-0400

    Changes made compared to my suggested Intel build:
    CPU: i5-7600K -> Ryzen 5 1600X
    CPU Cooler: Arctic Freezer i32 -> Arctic Freezer 33
    MoBo: MSI Z270 chipset -> MSI B350 chipset
    Case: Corsair 450D -> Phanteks P400S TG (red LED)
    KB: none -> Corsair Strafe (Cherry MX Brown)

    Again few words
    CPU
    As asked, put in AMD chip. Went with 1600X that has a bit higher base and turbo clocks than 1600,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/3919vs3920

    CPU Cooler
    I made a mistake when i said earlier that Arctic Freezer A32 is needed. While Freezer A32 does have AMD bracket, it doesn't support AM4 socket but Freezer 33 does. So added that one to the build. Cooling performance wise, Freezer 33 is identical to the Freezer i32/A32.

    MoBo
    Since the build has AMD chip, changed MoBo to a B350 chipset. X370 chipset is only useful if you need the extra features present on the MoBo.

    Case
    Since you liked Phanteks P400S TG, i added it to this build. But rather than having green LED, this one has red LED to match your monitor and KB. You can switch it back to the green LED version and save $10 CAD.

    KB
    I also added the same KB to the build you added with your take on Ryzen build. Do note that Cherry MX Brown switches are tactile and you'll feel a bump during the key press.
    I, personally, don't like the tactile bump with Cherry MX Brown switches. That's why i went with Cherry MX Silent switches. Though, i did test out different Cherry MX switches in PC hardware store to find the best switch type for me before i bought my Corsair KB. If you're unsure about different switch types, do the same as i did, by testing them out before buying one.


    While you can build 1080p gaming build with much less, the build itself would need plenty of upgrades over the time to keep it within gaming specs. Here's one such cheaper example build,
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/W87TKZ

    But with CPU, RAM, GPU and PSU upgrades, that seemingly weak build can do 4K gaming just fine while being useful for 3 to 5 years (even more if you push it).

    As far as when build becomes outdated depends on the MoBo used since it's the sole factor which states what kind of CPUs you can use with it. While it doesn't matter with GPUs since you can put even the best GPU into the old MoBo and it still works.
    Three examples with my PCs.
    1. My AMD build has AM3 MoBo and the best CPU i can use with it is Phenom II X6 1055T. When compared it to the best of Intel (excluding server chips), i7-7700K, we can say that my AMD build is outdated. Though, i'll keep it around for retro gaming,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-AMD-Phenom-II-X6-1055T/3647vs2003
    2. My Haswell build has Z97 chipset MoBo and the best CPU i can use with it is i7-4790K. Despite the older tech, it isn't much weaker than i7-7700K which results it still being competitive at current date,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/3647vs2384
    3. My Skylake build has Z170 chipset MoBo and the best CPU i can use with it is i7-7700K. While i'm currently running one generation older tech than currently available, my Skylake build is very solid and for now, i don't see a need to upgrade it's CPU.

    Don't put your hopes on Black Friday since usually, only overstocked components that no-one wants are put on sale, while hot items remain with standard price.
    Reply to Aeacus
  8. Just slightly different from the other builds, got an RX 580 (performs only very slightly worse than a 1060) in there to make use of the 75hz freesync monitor, as well as choosing a micro atx build so it takes up less space.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($27.99 @ DirectCanada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350M GAMING PRO Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($100.95 @ Amazon Canada)
    Memory: Team - Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($55.25 @ shopRBC)
    Video Card: Asus - Radeon RX 580 8GB DUAL Video Card ($389.99 @ Memory Express)
    Case: Cooler Master - N200 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($54.75 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.75 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link - TL-WDN4800 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Adapter ($42.01 @ Newegg Canada Marketplace)
    Monitor: LG - 24MP59G-P 23.8" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor ($179.99 @ Memory Express)
    Keyboard: Redragon - K552 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($44.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Total: $1604.63
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 21:18 EDT-0400
    Reply to blankcr8
  9. Kasper Jorgensen said:


    Not a bad build. I like that you went full i7-7700k. But feel like i can at least match performance for less $ with a Ryzen.

    The case is ugly as sin, but for another 20 i can get some lights and such.

    The monitor you have seems a bit subpar, bc for $20 i can get 144hz. Not sure if you have any comment on that.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  10. blankcr8 said:
    Just slightly different from the other builds, got an RX 580 (performs only very slightly worse than a 1060) in there to make use of the 75hz freesync monitor, as well as choosing a micro atx build so it takes up less space.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($27.99 @ DirectCanada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350M GAMING PRO Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($100.95 @ Amazon Canada)
    Memory: Team - Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($55.25 @ shopRBC)
    Video Card: Asus - Radeon RX 580 8GB DUAL Video Card ($389.99 @ Memory Express)
    Case: Cooler Master - N200 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($54.75 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.75 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link - TL-WDN4800 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Adapter ($42.01 @ Newegg Canada Marketplace)
    Monitor: LG - 24MP59G-P 23.8" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor ($179.99 @ Memory Express)
    Keyboard: Redragon - K552 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($44.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Total: $1604.63
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 21:18 EDT-0400


    Is Freesync worthwhile at 60-75hz? I've only just started reading about refresh rates and the like.

    I've heard micro atx builds have heat issues although i have no idea how true that is.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  11. blankcr8 said:
    Just slightly different from the other builds, got an RX 580 (performs only very slightly worse than a 1060) in there to make use of the 75hz freesync monitor, as well as choosing a micro atx build so it takes up less space.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($27.99 @ DirectCanada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350M GAMING PRO Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($100.95 @ Amazon Canada)
    Memory: Team - Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($55.25 @ shopRBC)
    Video Card: Asus - Radeon RX 580 8GB DUAL Video Card ($389.99 @ Memory Express)
    Case: Cooler Master - N200 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($54.75 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.75 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link - TL-WDN4800 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Adapter ($42.01 @ Newegg Canada Marketplace)
    Monitor: LG - 24MP59G-P 23.8" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor ($179.99 @ Memory Express)
    Keyboard: Redragon - K552 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($44.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Total: $1604.63
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 21:18 EDT-0400


    Is Freesync worthwhile at 60-75hz? I've only just started reading about refresh rates and the like.

    I've heard micro atx builds have heat issues although i have no idea how true that is.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  12. Aeacus said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    I would like to take you up on the AMD build offer as well. The computer will likely end up in my office and thus be used for more than just gaming. But if I have two build options, I can see what deals come about for Black Friday and pull the trigger and let cost weigh in at the end. I feel like Ryzen might allow for more upgrading piece by piece than any 4 core i5 or i7.

    How do you like this case? (Just starting to look)
    https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811854054

    Oh and one last thought. A friend of mine said I am crazy to spend 1600 on a computer for just 1080 and that it can be done for much less, but in a few years I would need an entirely new build as it would be outdated. Any thoughts on a statement like that?

    Here's me taking a crack at an AMD. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/R2f9gL
    This has me at $1600 but I haven't factored in taxes which at 13% puts me up in mid $1800's which is no good. How low could this get come Black Friday?

    Show me how I can cut some corners. (One could be a keyboard and just get a basic membrane for like 15.00 and save that for a later purchase.)

    Here's the Ryzen build (color theme: black with small touches of red)

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer 33 CPU Cooler ($46.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350 PC MATE ATX AM4 Motherboard ($118.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400S TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.75 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: AOC - G2460PF 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor ($255.84 @ Amazon Canada)
    Keyboard: Corsair - STRAFE Wired Gaming Keyboard ($109.99 @ Memory Express)
    Total: $1574.96
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-07 20:04 EDT-0400

    Changes made compared to my suggested Intel build:
    CPU: i5-7600K -> Ryzen 5 1600X
    CPU Cooler: Arctic Freezer i32 -> Arctic Freezer 33
    MoBo: MSI Z270 chipset -> MSI B350 chipset
    Case: Corsair 450D -> Phanteks P400S TG (red LED)
    KB: none -> Corsair Strafe (Cherry MX Brown)

    Again few words
    CPU
    As asked, put in AMD chip. Went with 1600X that has a bit higher base and turbo clocks than 1600,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/3919vs3920

    CPU Cooler
    I made a mistake when i said earlier that Arctic Freezer A32 is needed. While Freezer A32 does have AMD bracket, it doesn't support AM4 socket but Freezer 33 does. So added that one to the build. Cooling performance wise, Freezer 33 is identical to the Freezer i32/A32.

    MoBo
    Since the build has AMD chip, changed MoBo to a B350 chipset. X370 chipset is only useful if you need the extra features present on the MoBo.

    Case
    Since you liked Phanteks P400S TG, i added it to this build. But rather than having green LED, this one has red LED to match your monitor and KB. You can switch it back to the green LED version and save $10 CAD.

    KB
    I also added the same KB to the build you added with your take on Ryzen build. Do note that Cherry MX Brown switches are tactile and you'll feel a bump during the key press.
    I, personally, don't like the tactile bump with Cherry MX Brown switches. That's why i went with Cherry MX Silent switches. Though, i did test out different Cherry MX switches in PC hardware store to find the best switch type for me before i bought my Corsair KB. If you're unsure about different switch types, do the same as i did, by testing them out before buying one.


    While you can build 1080p gaming build with much less, the build itself would need plenty of upgrades over the time to keep it within gaming specs. Here's one such cheaper example build,
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/W87TKZ

    But with CPU, RAM, GPU and PSU upgrades, that seemingly weak build can do 4K gaming just fine while being useful for 3 to 5 years (even more if you push it).

    As far as when build becomes outdated depends on the MoBo used since it's the sole factor which states what kind of CPUs you can use with it. While it doesn't matter with GPUs since you can put even the best GPU into the old MoBo and it still works.
    Three examples with my PCs.
    1. My AMD build has AM3 MoBo and the best CPU i can use with it is Phenom II X6 1055T. When compared it to the best of Intel (excluding server chips), i7-7700K, we can say that my AMD build is outdated. Though, i'll keep it around for retro gaming,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-AMD-Phenom-II-X6-1055T/3647vs2003
    2. My Haswell build has Z97 chipset MoBo and the best CPU i can use with it is i7-4790K. Despite the older tech, it isn't much weaker than i7-7700K which results it still being competitive at current date,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/3647vs2384
    3. My Skylake build has Z170 chipset MoBo and the best CPU i can use with it is i7-7700K. While i'm currently running one generation older tech than currently available, my Skylake build is very solid and for now, i don't see a need to upgrade it's CPU.

    Don't put your hopes on Black Friday since usually, only overstocked components that no-one wants are put on sale, while hot items remain with standard price.


    Honestly, I feel like this build might be my leading contender. Ty for clarification on the cooler. I've read that the Evo 212 is the best low budget cooler around. yes-no? Obviously you have history using ARCTIC but I was just wondering why you didn't recommend the 212 like pretty much everyone ever.

    1600 vs 1600x. I don't understand. I thought the x meant overclockable? But i'm reading that isn't true. A video I watched said the 1600x is a higher base and better performance for about $20 more, but that the increased performance is larger than the $20 price tag. I assume there are forums and such to help with learning to OC?

    Will a B350 MOBO likely last into the next generation of processors?

    Cases - Ok Corsair and Phanteks are my top choices. But what are your thoughts on things like Thermaltake, Nzxt, Cooler Master, etc. I guess my real question is, are there any brands to avoid entirely?

    PSU - Is the 650w a future proofing effort? According to pcpartpicker, the wattage is 339w, yet the PSU is almost double that. Why so much? I thought pcparticker checks the power draw at max load?

    I've never had anything but a basic keyboard so maybe I can stick with those for now. Or maybe I can get one of those sweet MX Silent ones lol. I'll find a local store and try some out.

    B/c this will be a christmas present for myself and my son, any thoughts on how to make it look cool, i.e. RGB fans, etc.?

    I'm half of inclined to do the weaker build and just add as time allows. But it is so hard to mentally buy old gear. I have a 600w PSU in my current rig (with my gtx 660), maybe i can buy a 500w and do a little swap. But I feel like mobo and CPU are must have's now. I guess I could get 8 GB or RAM if I really wanted to save a few bucks now. But is there a disadvantage to getting 1 GB now, vs 2 x 4?
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  13. Reply to rob.salewytsch
  14. rob.salewytsch said:
    Honestly, I feel like this build might be my leading contender. Ty for clarification on the cooler. I've read that the Evo 212 is the best low budget cooler around. yes-no? Obviously you have history using ARCTIC but I was just wondering why you didn't recommend the 212 like pretty much everyone ever.

    Hyper 212 Evo is popular because it's cheap and not because it's the best. With low price, you won't get much build quality. Main reason why i never suggest Hyper 212 Evo is because the fan included is using sleeve bearing. While with Arctic Freezer 33, the fan has fluid dynamic bearing.
    From here you can read why i don't like sleeve bearing fans and also why i suggested Freezer 33 which has fluid dynamic bearing fan,
    link: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/779-computer-case-fan-bearing-differences

    In my Skylake and Haswell builds, most case fans have mag-lev bearing (Corsair ML series) while i also have fluid dynamic bearing fans (NZXT AER RGB).

    If you want to go with something else for CPU cooler than Arctic Cooling i suggested then feel free to pick any air cooler from the list here,
    link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html

    Just make sure that your case has enough CPU cooler clearance and you don't run into RAM clearance issues either since many big-sized CPU coolers (e.g NH-D15, Dark Rock Pro 3) have limited RAM clearance. Though, Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 is my fist suggestion on heat intensive CPUs (e.g i7-7700K) if the budget allows to put it in and there are no clearance issues.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    1600 vs 1600x. I don't understand. I thought the x meant overclockable? But i'm reading that isn't true. A video I watched said the 1600x is a higher base and better performance for about $20 more, but that the increased performance is larger than the $20 price tag. I assume there are forums and such to help with learning to OC?

    While with Intel CPUs, the K suffix does mean that the CPU has unlocked multiplier for CPU OC, the same isn't true for AMD CPUs. The X suffix for AMD CPUs stands for eXtended Frequency Range (XFR). While all AMD Ryzen series CPUs are overclockable if you use B350 or X370 chipset MoBo. Only A320 chipset MoBos doesn't support CPU OC.

    Yes, there are plenty of guides to OC Ryzen CPUs. Here's one such guide,
    link: http://www.overclockers.com/amd-ryzen-overclocking-guide/

    And here's further reading about AMD's XFR,
    link: https://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/PSA-AMD-XFR-Enabled-All-Ryzen-CPUs-X-SKUs-Have-Wider-Range

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Will a B350 MOBO likely last into the next generation of processors?

    Since Ryzen CPUs came out at the beginning of summer, this year, there's no info what the next gen AMD chips would be and when they would be released. Though, AMD doesn't release their next gen CPUs as often as Intel does. After the release of AMD's Piledriver CPUs in 2012 (e.g FX-8350), it took 5 years before AMD released Zen family CPUs. While it takes on average only 2 years for Intel to release a new family of CPUs (e.g Haswell in 2013, Skylake in 2015, Kaby Lake in 2017, Cannonlake probably in 2018, followed by Ice Lake in 2019 and after that, Tiger Lake).

    Though, if AMD does release a new gen of CPUs then i doubt that they make a new CPU socket for new CPUs, unless it takes another 5 years to the next mayor release and AM4 CPU socket would remain exclusive to the Ryzen CPUs.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Cases - Ok Corsair and Phanteks are my top choices. But what are your thoughts on things like Thermaltake, Nzxt, Cooler Master, etc. I guess my real question is, are there any brands to avoid entirely?

    With PC cases, there is no brand that should be avoided since PC case is just a metal box that houses PC components and there's not much to go wrong making one. Each brand has their unique theme they follow, for example, NZXT cases are mostly minimalist in design while Thermaltake likes to use fully meshed front panels.

    While two out of three of my PCs sit in famous brand PC cases (Corsair), my 3rd PC (AMD build) sits in a quite unknown brand PC case called Sharkoon. I didn't pick my AMD build's PC case by the brand but by the features i needed and the looks i liked,
    Skarkoon DG7000-G specs: https://www.sharkoon.com/product/1678/DG7000-G

    rob.salewytsch said:
    PSU - Is the 650w a future proofing effort? According to pcpartpicker, the wattage is 339w, yet the PSU is almost double that. Why so much? I thought pcparticker checks the power draw at max load?

    While pcpp may show total wattage of 339W, keep in mind that no calculator can state the actual max power consumption. What you see there is an estimation.
    As far as why 650W and not a 400W PSU is because if you go with the GTX 1080 Ti, which is 250W GPU and if you add the rest of the system to it at about 200W, max power consumption would be 450W. If you OC your CPU and GPU then PC can easily draw extra 100W, making the max power consumption 550W. Since PSU is most efficient when the load on it is kept within 50% to 80% of it's total wattage output, the 650W PSU would be best for modern system that uses GTX 1080 Ti. And that's why i suggested getting a 650W PSU.
    Also, it doesn't hurt the PC or PSU even if you use 1.2kW (1200W) PSU. Only downside is that the PSU efficiency would be quite bad if the 1.2kW PSU doesn't need to output more than 500W.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    B/c this will be a christmas present for myself and my son, any thoughts on how to make it look cool, i.e. RGB fans, etc.?

    Do note that any kind of RGB comes with a premium price.
    The best PC RGB solution (without being overly complicated to set up and use) would be NZXT HUE+ (comes with 4x addressable LED strips) and NZXT AER RGB fans (8x addressable LEDs in one fan),
    HUE+ specs: https://www.nzxt.com/products/hue-plus
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/TYgPxr/nzxt-case-accessory-achuepsm1
    AER RGB specs: https://www.nzxt.com/products/aer-rgb
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/w7RFf7,DJyxFT,CDZ2FT,c4M323/

    While NZXT HUE+ and AER RGB fans are pricey, you can lit your PC up like a Christmas tree. :D
    I have the NZXT HUE+ and AER RGB setup in my Skylake and Haswell builds and for me, who loves fancy PCs, they provide a lot of eyecandy. Under the spoiler are few pics of my Skylake build to show how NZXT RGB solution looks like. (click on spoiler to view)
    Top left: Day shot of black & red theme.
    Bottom left: Night shot of black & red theme.
    Top right: Day shot of RGB theme.
    Bottom right: Night shot of RGB theme.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    I'm half of inclined to do the weaker build and just add as time allows. But it is so hard to mentally buy old gear. I have a 600w PSU in my current rig (with my gtx 660), maybe i can buy a 500w and do a little swap. But I feel like mobo and CPU are must have's now. I guess I could get 8 GB or RAM if I really wanted to save a few bucks now. But is there a disadvantage to getting 1 GB now, vs 2 x 4?

    There is a difference if you go with 1x 8GB or 2x 4GB. With one stick of RAM, you RAM runs in a single-channel, while with 2 sticks of RAM, your RAM runs in a dual-channel. Here's a comparison between same RAM sticks, one being 8GB another being 2x 4GB,
    link: http://ram.userbenchmark.com/Compare/HyperX-Fury-DDR4-2133-C14-1x8GB-vs-HyperX-Fury-DDR4-2133-C14-2x4GB/3555vs3554
    Reply to Aeacus
  15. If you're ok with using the 960 for a while, this build has the 8 core ryzen instead of 6, all of the parts are upgradeable and very high quality.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($379.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H5 Ultimate 76.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.84 @ DirectCanada)
    Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.98 @ NCIX)
    Memory: Team - Dark Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($214.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.99 @ Memory Express)
    Case: NZXT - S340 Elite (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($117.54 @ DirectCanada)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.98 @ NCIX)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.00 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: LG - 24MP59G-P 23.8" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor ($179.99 @ Memory Express)
    Keyboard: AZIO - MGK L80 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($83.91 @ DirectCanada)
    Total: $1602.19
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-10 10:55 EDT-0400
    Reply to blankcr8
  16. rob.salewytsch said:
    Kasper Jorgensen said:


    Not a bad build. I like that you went full i7-7700k. But feel like i can at least match performance for less $ with a Ryzen.

    The case is ugly as sin, but for another 20 i can get some lights and such.

    The monitor you have seems a bit subpar, bc for $20 i can get 144hz. Not sure if you have any comment on that.


    You cannot match the I7-7700K performance in gaming with any Ryzen. Nothing beats the I7-7700K for gaming. You could save a bit of $ with a Ryzen system but you wont match the 7700K performance.
    Reply to Kasper Jorgensen
  17. Kasper Jorgensen said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    Kasper Jorgensen said:


    Not a bad build. I like that you went full i7-7700k. But feel like i can at least match performance for less $ with a Ryzen.

    The case is ugly as sin, but for another 20 i can get some lights and such.

    The monitor you have seems a bit subpar, bc for $20 i can get 144hz. Not sure if you have any comment on that.


    You cannot match the I7-7700K performance in gaming with any Ryzen. Nothing beats the I7-7700K for gaming. You could save a bit of $ with a Ryzen system but you wont match the 7700K performance.


    So while I sort of agree, I've been watching a lot of test bench videos. It appears that if you OC a Ryzen 7 1700 to 4gh that you can come very close. And when you take the performance to price ration into account, Ryzen comes out on top. Plus having 1.5-2.0 times the cores and threads (depending on what Ryzen you choose) lends itself to future superiority. All for the the same price or less.

    To be fair, "my" opinions above are really just regurgitated from what I've researched from other sources.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  18. blankcr8 said:
    If you're ok with using the 960 for a while, this build has the 8 core ryzen instead of 6, all of the parts are upgradeable and very high quality.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($379.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - H5 Ultimate 76.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($47.84 @ DirectCanada)
    Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.98 @ NCIX)
    Memory: Team - Dark Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($214.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.99 @ Memory Express)
    Case: NZXT - S340 Elite (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($117.54 @ DirectCanada)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($139.98 @ NCIX)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.00 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: LG - 24MP59G-P 23.8" 1920x1080 75Hz Monitor ($179.99 @ Memory Express)
    Keyboard: AZIO - MGK L80 Wired Gaming Keyboard ($83.91 @ DirectCanada)
    Total: $1602.19
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-10 10:55 EDT-0400


    You sir are evil. Got me right back into scope creep. I tried editing your build a little to take some of the other posters recommendations and I am just over budget.

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GRMyhq

    That being said, I have heard that I can get Windows at a reduced price through things like Key resellers, and/or my employer discount. So that might bring me a little closer to the mark.

    So close. Time to start looking to see what I can cut.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  19. Aeacus said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    Honestly, I feel like this build might be my leading contender. Ty for clarification on the cooler. I've read that the Evo 212 is the best low budget cooler around. yes-no? Obviously you have history using ARCTIC but I was just wondering why you didn't recommend the 212 like pretty much everyone ever.

    Hyper 212 Evo is popular because it's cheap and not because it's the best. With low price, you won't get much build quality. Main reason why i never suggest Hyper 212 Evo is because the fan included is using sleeve bearing. While with Arctic Freezer 33, the fan has fluid dynamic bearing.
    From here you can read why i don't like sleeve bearing fans and also why i suggested Freezer 33 which has fluid dynamic bearing fan,
    link: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/779-computer-case-fan-bearing-differences

    In my Skylake and Haswell builds, most case fans have mag-lev bearing (Corsair ML series) while i also have fluid dynamic bearing fans (NZXT AER RGB).

    If you want to go with something else for CPU cooler than Arctic Cooling i suggested then feel free to pick any air cooler from the list here,
    link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html

    Just make sure that your case has enough CPU cooler clearance and you don't run into RAM clearance issues either since many big-sized CPU coolers (e.g NH-D15, Dark Rock Pro 3) have limited RAM clearance. Though, Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 is my fist suggestion on heat intensive CPUs (e.g i7-7700K) if the budget allows to put it in and there are no clearance issues.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    1600 vs 1600x. I don't understand. I thought the x meant overclockable? But i'm reading that isn't true. A video I watched said the 1600x is a higher base and better performance for about $20 more, but that the increased performance is larger than the $20 price tag. I assume there are forums and such to help with learning to OC?

    While with Intel CPUs, the K suffix does mean that the CPU has unlocked multiplier for CPU OC, the same isn't true for AMD CPUs. The X suffix for AMD CPUs stands for eXtended Frequency Range (XFR). While all AMD Ryzen series CPUs are overclockable if you use B350 or X370 chipset MoBo. Only A320 chipset MoBos doesn't support CPU OC.

    Yes, there are plenty of guides to OC Ryzen CPUs. Here's one such guide,
    link: http://www.overclockers.com/amd-ryzen-overclocking-guide/

    And here's further reading about AMD's XFR,
    link: https://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/PSA-AMD-XFR-Enabled-All-Ryzen-CPUs-X-SKUs-Have-Wider-Range

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Will a B350 MOBO likely last into the next generation of processors?

    Since Ryzen CPUs came out at the beginning of summer, this year, there's no info what the next gen AMD chips would be and when they would be released. Though, AMD doesn't release their next gen CPUs as often as Intel does. After the release of AMD's Piledriver CPUs in 2012 (e.g FX-8350), it took 5 years before AMD released Zen family CPUs. While it takes on average only 2 years for Intel to release a new family of CPUs (e.g Haswell in 2013, Skylake in 2015, Kaby Lake in 2017, Cannonlake probably in 2018, followed by Ice Lake in 2019 and after that, Tiger Lake).

    Though, if AMD does release a new gen of CPUs then i doubt that they make a new CPU socket for new CPUs, unless it takes another 5 years to the next mayor release and AM4 CPU socket would remain exclusive to the Ryzen CPUs.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Cases - Ok Corsair and Phanteks are my top choices. But what are your thoughts on things like Thermaltake, Nzxt, Cooler Master, etc. I guess my real question is, are there any brands to avoid entirely?

    With PC cases, there is no brand that should be avoided since PC case is just a metal box that houses PC components and there's not much to go wrong making one. Each brand has their unique theme they follow, for example, NZXT cases are mostly minimalist in design while Thermaltake likes to use fully meshed front panels.

    While two out of three of my PCs sit in famous brand PC cases (Corsair), my 3rd PC (AMD build) sits in a quite unknown brand PC case called Sharkoon. I didn't pick my AMD build's PC case by the brand but by the features i needed and the looks i liked,
    Skarkoon DG7000-G specs: https://www.sharkoon.com/product/1678/DG7000-G

    rob.salewytsch said:
    PSU - Is the 650w a future proofing effort? According to pcpartpicker, the wattage is 339w, yet the PSU is almost double that. Why so much? I thought pcparticker checks the power draw at max load?

    While pcpp may show total wattage of 339W, keep in mind that no calculator can state the actual max power consumption. What you see there is an estimation.
    As far as why 650W and not a 400W PSU is because if you go with the GTX 1080 Ti, which is 250W GPU and if you add the rest of the system to it at about 200W, max power consumption would be 450W. If you OC your CPU and GPU then PC can easily draw extra 100W, making the max power consumption 550W. Since PSU is most efficient when the load on it is kept within 50% to 80% of it's total wattage output, the 650W PSU would be best for modern system that uses GTX 1080 Ti. And that's why i suggested getting a 650W PSU.
    Also, it doesn't hurt the PC or PSU even if you use 1.2kW (1200W) PSU. Only downside is that the PSU efficiency would be quite bad if the 1.2kW PSU doesn't need to output more than 500W.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    B/c this will be a christmas present for myself and my son, any thoughts on how to make it look cool, i.e. RGB fans, etc.?

    Do note that any kind of RGB comes with a premium price.
    The best PC RGB solution (without being overly complicated to set up and use) would be NZXT HUE+ (comes with 4x addressable LED strips) and NZXT AER RGB fans (8x addressable LEDs in one fan),
    HUE+ specs: https://www.nzxt.com/products/hue-plus
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/TYgPxr/nzxt-case-accessory-achuepsm1
    AER RGB specs: https://www.nzxt.com/products/aer-rgb
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/w7RFf7,DJyxFT,CDZ2FT,c4M323/

    While NZXT HUE+ and AER RGB fans are pricey, you can lit your PC up like a Christmas tree. :D
    I have the NZXT HUE+ and AER RGB setup in my Skylake and Haswell builds and for me, who loves fancy PCs, they provide a lot of eyecandy. Under the spoiler are few pics of my Skylake build to show how NZXT RGB solution looks like. (click on spoiler to view)
    Top left: Day shot of black & red theme.
    Bottom left: Night shot of black & red theme.
    Top right: Day shot of RGB theme.
    Bottom right: Night shot of RGB theme.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    I'm half of inclined to do the weaker build and just add as time allows. But it is so hard to mentally buy old gear. I have a 600w PSU in my current rig (with my gtx 660), maybe i can buy a 500w and do a little swap. But I feel like mobo and CPU are must have's now. I guess I could get 8 GB or RAM if I really wanted to save a few bucks now. But is there a disadvantage to getting 1 GB now, vs 2 x 4?

    There is a difference if you go with 1x 8GB or 2x 4GB. With one stick of RAM, you RAM runs in a single-channel, while with 2 sticks of RAM, your RAM runs in a dual-channel. Here's a comparison between same RAM sticks, one being 8GB another being 2x 4GB,
    link: http://ram.userbenchmark.com/Compare/HyperX-Fury-DDR4-2133-C14-1x8GB-vs-HyperX-Fury-DDR4-2133-C14-2x4GB/3555vs3554


    Alright, take a look at this. It has me slightly over budget so I would want to look what to cut. This is the scope creep I am talking about lol.

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GRMyhq
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  20. Or I can drop way down and save a few hundred dollars.

    https://elitegamingcomputers.com/good-cheap-gaming-computers/#24

    Although I'd add a second stick of RAM and a monitor and keyboard.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  21. rob.salewytsch said:
    Alright, take a look at this. It has me slightly over budget so I would want to look what to cut. This is the scope creep I am talking about lol.

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GRMyhq

    Refined your build a bit.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($379.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer 33 CPU Cooler ($67.74 @ Amazon Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350M PRO-VDH Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: Team - Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($159.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Case: Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400S TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($114.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.00 @ Vuugo)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($44.99 @ Memory Express)
    Monitor: AOC - G2460PF 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor ($264.49 @ Amazon Canada)
    Keyboard: Corsair - STRAFE MX Silent Wired Gaming Keyboard ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Total: $1559.66
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-11 12:45 EDT-0400

    Changes made
    MoBo: ASRock AB350 Pro4 (ATX) -> MSI PRO-VDH (microATX)
    HDD: WD Blue (1TB) -> none
    PSU: Seasonic Focus+ 850 -> Seasonic M12II-620 EVO

    Reasons why
    MoBo
    To keep your build within your budget, it's really hard to nerf a very solid build without compromising anything. To keep the cost down, switched the ATX MoBo with microATX MoBo which also has 4 RAM slots for easier RAM upgrade in the future.
    With smaller MoBo, you can go with smaller case also (e.g Bitfenix Prodigy M or Thermaltake Core V21) and reduce the PC's footprint. I did read about your concern with heat issues in microATX builds. While it's true that the microATX builds are smaller and heat is more of a problem, as long as you have sufficient airflow going through it with good case fans, internal heat isn't an issue for microATX builds.

    HDD
    Had to remove the HDD to get the build within budget. Since HDD doesn't cost much and it's very easy to buy one afterwards and add it to the build, you can do fine without it for time being. Though, with the next upgrade, do buy the HDD to get additional storage space.

    PSU
    850W PSU is a bit much for your system, even if you go with GTX 1080 Ti in the future. So, to keep the cost down, replaced the PSU with M12II-620 EVO. M12II EVO series PSU is also fully modular just like Focus+ series but PSU's efficiency drops from 80+ Gold to 80+ Bronze and so does the warranty period, from 10 years to 5 years. Though, don't think you'll get inferior PSU, M12II EVO is good quality PSU and it will do just fine. It's max output of 620W is also enough if you go with GTX 1080 Ti. My Haswell build is also powered by M12II EVO series PSU.
    Reply to Aeacus
  22. Yes you may come close if you overclock the Ryzen @4GHz, but then you may overclock the 7700K @5GHz and then you are no longer close.
    Reply to Kasper Jorgensen
  23. Kasper Jorgensen said:
    Yes you may come close if you overclock the Ryzen @4GHz, but then you may overclock the 7700K @5GHz and then you are no longer close.

    It is true that for gaming, Intel CPUs are best.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    So while I sort of agree, I've been watching a lot of test bench videos. It appears that if you OC a Ryzen 7 1700 to 4gh that you can come very close. And when you take the performance to price ration into account, Ryzen comes out on top. Plus having 1.5-2.0 times the cores and threads (depending on what Ryzen you choose) lends itself to future superiority. All for the the same price or less.

    To be fair, "my" opinions above are really just regurgitated from what I've researched from other sources.

    Even the best CPU offered by AMD: Threadripper 1950X doesn't beat Intel's i7-7700K when it comes to web browsing (single-core performance) and gaming (quad-core performance), overclocked or not,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-TR-1950X-vs-Intel-Core-i7-7700K/3932vs3647

    And i7-7700K isn't the best offered by Intel. There's also line of server chips that outperform i7-7700K, e.g i7-7820X,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core--i7-7820X/3647vs3928

    As far as price per performance goes, i7-7700K has far better value than any Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 5 CPUs,
    link: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/
    Order the list by Value to see CPUs arranged by the price per performance.

    Leading the pack is Ryzen 3 1300X with my initially suggested i5-7600K at the 3rd place. My Skylake's build i5-6600K is 5th and followed by i7-7700K as 6th. Ryzen 5 1600X is at 14th place and Ryzen 7 1700 is at 28th place.
    The reason why mid- and high-end Ryzen CPUs doesn't have good value is due to their poor single- and quad-core performance when compared to the Intel CPUs.
    Reply to Aeacus
  24. Aeacus said:
    Kasper Jorgensen said:
    Yes you may come close if you overclock the Ryzen @4GHz, but then you may overclock the 7700K @5GHz and then you are no longer close.

    It is true that for gaming, Intel CPUs are best.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    So while I sort of agree, I've been watching a lot of test bench videos. It appears that if you OC a Ryzen 7 1700 to 4gh that you can come very close. And when you take the performance to price ration into account, Ryzen comes out on top. Plus having 1.5-2.0 times the cores and threads (depending on what Ryzen you choose) lends itself to future superiority. All for the the same price or less.

    To be fair, "my" opinions above are really just regurgitated from what I've researched from other sources.

    Even the best CPU offered by AMD: Threadripper 1950X doesn't beat Intel's i7-7700K when it comes to web browsing (single-core performance) and gaming (quad-core performance), overclocked or not,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-TR-1950X-vs-Intel-Core-i7-7700K/3932vs3647

    And i7-7700K isn't the best offered by Intel. There's also line of server chips that outperform i7-7700K, e.g i7-7820X,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core--i7-7820X/3647vs3928

    As far as price per performance goes, i7-7700K has far better value than any Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 5 CPUs,
    link: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/
    Order the list by Value to see CPUs arranged by the price per performance.

    Leading the pack is Ryzen 3 1300X with my initially suggested i5-7600K at the 3rd place. My Skylake's build i5-6600K is 5th and followed by i7-7700K as 6th. Ryzen 5 1600X is at 14th place and Ryzen 7 1700 is at 28th place.
    The reason why mid- and high-end Ryzen CPUs doesn't have good value is due to their poor single- and quad-core performance when compared to the Intel CPUs.


    Ok so I took your original build and went a little different. I think I've decided to scrap my existing computer which means that I have speakers, and I have a monitor 1080 60hz. Also, I no longer need the wireless network adapter and was able to salvage my Corsair CX600w 80+ Bronze PSU.

    I couldn't find the same Thermaltake V21 on pcpp even though I like the look of the short box cases.

    Anyway, here is the build.

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/RDVCTH

    Now taking suggestions for minor improvements.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  25. Idk if this counts as a small change, but I would say r5 1600 over 7600k. It will be very similar in games and better for your work at the same price
    Reply to blankcr8
  26. blankcr8 said:
    Idk if this counts as a small change, but I would say r5 1600 over 7600k. It will be very similar in games and better for your work at the same price


    Hmm...I thought intel blows ryzen away in gaming which is the bigger issue. This has me all out of sorts. Care to do a rework with ryzen 1600x for me? I don't know how to select a MOBO.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  27. rob.salewytsch said:
    Ok so I took your original build and went a little different. I think I've decided to scrap my existing computer which means that I have speakers, and I have a monitor 1080 60hz. Also, I no longer need the wireless network adapter and was able to salvage my Corsair CX600w 80+ Bronze PSU.

    I couldn't find the same Thermaltake V21 on pcpp even though I like the look of the short box cases.

    Anyway, here is the build.

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/RDVCTH

    Now taking suggestions for minor improvements.

    The reason why you can't see Core V21 on pcpp is because your build has ATX MoBo while Core V21 supports only mini ITX and mATX MoBos.

    Refined your build a bit.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel - Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($292.99 @ DirectCanada)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer i32 CPU Cooler ($49.99 @ Memory Express)
    Motherboard: MSI - Z270M MORTAR Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($157.14 @ DirectCanada)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($174.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($79.50 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.00 @ Vuugo)
    Monitor: LG - 24M45VQ 23.6" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
    Total: $1127.54
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-11 22:23 EDT-0400

    Changes made
    RAM: G.Skill 2x 8GB 2400 Mhz -> Corsair 2x 8GB 3000 Mhz
    MoBo: MSI Z270 PC MATE (ATX) -> MSI Z270M MORTAR (micro ATX)
    Case: Thermaltake Versa N21 -> Thermaltake Core V21
    PSU: Corsair CX600 -> Seasonic M12II-620 EVO

    Reasons why
    RAM
    With the same money, you can go with 3000 Mhz RAM rather than 2400 Mhz RAM. So, replaced the RAM with faster one.

    MoBo
    Since you liked Core V21, i replaced ATX MoBo with microATX MoBo that fits into Core V21. Oh, MoBo also has some red LEDs for eyecandy.

    Case
    Replaced Versa N21 with Core V21 which appealed to you.

    PSU
    Corsair CX series PSUs are low quality PSUs and don't use it with your new PC. Since the PSU is the most important component inside the PC, i replaced it with good quality PSU.

    Oh, i also set the price of the Win 10 OEM license back as it was. While buying just the Win license key is cheaper than going with full OEM/retail version, there's no telling if the key has or hasn't been already used. And for that risk alone, it's forbidden in the Tom's Hardware forums to suggest buying only a Win license key.
    Reply to Aeacus
  28. Intel blows ryzen away with the i7. The i5 is not very much better than ryzen because it doesn't have hyperthreading, so although the i5 still beats ryzen in singlethreaded tasks, most games are well enough optimized for cores so that ryzen can catch up to the i5 by sheer count. The effects of this are shown well in this video: https://youtu.be/4RMbYe4X2LI

    Here is the rework with 1600x
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/hYk8Gf

    At this point the decision is totally up to you. You will always have people telling you different things, and you will be happy with either one.
    Reply to blankcr8
  29. Aeacus said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    Ok so I took your original build and went a little different. I think I've decided to scrap my existing computer which means that I have speakers, and I have a monitor 1080 60hz. Also, I no longer need the wireless network adapter and was able to salvage my Corsair CX600w 80+ Bronze PSU.

    I couldn't find the same Thermaltake V21 on pcpp even though I like the look of the short box cases.

    Anyway, here is the build.

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/RDVCTH

    Now taking suggestions for minor improvements.

    The reason why you can't see Core V21 on pcpp is because your build has ATX MoBo while Core V21 supports only mini ITX and mATX MoBos.

    Refined your build a bit.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel - Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($292.99 @ DirectCanada)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer i32 CPU Cooler ($49.99 @ Memory Express)
    Motherboard: MSI - Z270M MORTAR Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($157.14 @ DirectCanada)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($174.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($79.50 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($113.00 @ Vuugo)
    Monitor: LG - 24M45VQ 23.6" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
    Total: $1127.54
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-11 22:23 EDT-0400

    Changes made
    RAM: G.Skill 2x 8GB 2400 Mhz -> Corsair 2x 8GB 3000 Mhz
    MoBo: MSI Z270 PC MATE (ATX) -> MSI Z270M MORTAR (micro ATX)
    Case: Thermaltake Versa N21 -> Thermaltake Core V21
    PSU: Corsair CX600 -> Seasonic M12II-620 EVO

    Reasons why
    RAM
    With the same money, you can go with 3000 Mhz RAM rather than 2400 Mhz RAM. So, replaced the RAM with faster one.

    MoBo
    Since you liked Core V21, i replaced ATX MoBo with microATX MoBo that fits into Core V21. Oh, MoBo also has some red LEDs for eyecandy.

    Case
    Replaced Versa N21 with Core V21 which appealed to you.

    PSU
    Corsair CX series PSUs are low quality PSUs and don't use it with your new PC. Since the PSU is the most important component inside the PC, i replaced it with good quality PSU.

    Oh, i also set the price of the Win 10 OEM license back as it was. While buying just the Win license key is cheaper than going with full OEM/retail version, there's no telling if the key has or hasn't been already used. And for that risk alone, it's forbidden in the Tom's Hardware forums to suggest buying only a Win license key.


    Ok so now I am essentially just saving the monitor from the existing computer, but that still ends up saving me a bit of cash. Would the Seasonic M12II-620 EVO still be good for a future GPU purchase? I don't want to have to buy a new PSU at that time.

    I have a question about that AOC monitor too. It appears to have FreeSync, but I am going to have NVIDIA GPU, so FreeSync is not usable am I right? So when I go buy a new monitor, I'll want GSync if anything.

    $1127 seems like a nice price point for an upgrade. It allows me to basically save $470 towards a new GPU which gets me about halfway to one. Or it almost covers the price of a 4K monitor.

    Do you think I require any other fans for my thermaltake v21?

    Lastly, I'm still leaning toward Ryzen 1600x if I'm only going i5, especially because my monitor is 60hz, so maxing FPS isn't really going to be helping. If I were to consider an i7, then I don't think the Ryzen 7 competes as well. However, the new intel CPUs are about to get released, that might change prices or something. I still have some time to pull the trigger as it will ultimately be a christmas gift.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  30. blankcr8 said:
    Intel blows ryzen away with the i7. The i5 is not very much better than ryzen because it doesn't have hyperthreading, so although the i5 still beats ryzen in singlethreaded tasks, most games are well enough optimized for cores so that ryzen can catch up to the i5 by sheer count. The effects of this are shown well in this video: https://youtu.be/4RMbYe4X2LI

    Here is the rework with 1600x
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/hYk8Gf

    At this point the decision is totally up to you. You will always have people telling you different things, and you will be happy with either one.


    I think the last line of your comment is important to remember. All of this is an upgrade and I am not a professional gamer. I just want to be sure that I'm in a good spot for when I upgrade my GPU and monitor in the next 2 years or so.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  31. You probably should get a new PSU, and the 620 Evo should handle any single gpu currently, and gpus will continue to get more efficient.

    You are correct about the gsync/freesync

    The included fans should be totally fine

    Here's another 1600x rework with the v21
    Reply to blankcr8
  32. blankcr8 said:
    You probably should get a new PSU, and the 620 Evo should handle any single gpu currently, and gpus will continue to get more efficient.

    You are correct about the gsync/freesync

    The included fans should be totally fine

    Here's another 1600x rework with the v21


    I think you forgot to add the link to the build.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  33. rob.salewytsch said:
    Ok so now I am essentially just saving the monitor from the existing computer, but that still ends up saving me a bit of cash. Would the Seasonic M12II-620 EVO still be good for a future GPU purchase? I don't want to have to buy a new PSU at that time.

    As i already said above, Seasonic M12II EVO series is good build quality PSU and it has enough wattage to power even the best gaming GPU.

    JonnyGuru reviewed the M12II-850 EVO and you can be sure that M12II-620 EVO has the same qualities, it just has lower wattage output,
    link: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=356

    rob.salewytsch said:
    I have a question about that AOC monitor too. It appears to have FreeSync, but I am going to have NVIDIA GPU, so FreeSync is not usable am I right? So when I go buy a new monitor, I'll want GSync if anything.

    Yes, it is a Freesync monitor and no, you can't use Freesync if you have Nvidia GPU. Only Radeon GPUs support Freesync.

    The downside about G-Sync monitors is that they cost much more since monitor manufacturers have to pay considerable royalties to Nvidia if the add G-Sync feature to the monitor. There's small royalty tax on Freesync and it's far cheaper to add it to the monitor than adding G-Sync. That's why Freesync monitors are far cheaper than G-Sync monitors.

    Here's a good example between two best budget gaming monitors: both are 24", 1080p, 144 Hz, TN panel, 1ms response time but AOC has Freesync while Acer has G-Sync,
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/ZBZ2FT,4cbkcf/

    You don't have to enable Freesync when using a monitor that has it. You can just use the native V-Sync that is supported by all GPUs and is usually found within game settings.

    Here's further reading about Freesync and G-Sync,
    link: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2974781/displays/g-sync-vs-freesync-faq-how-variable-refresh-rate-displays-make-pc-games-super-smooth.html

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Do you think I require any other fans for my thermaltake v21?

    Core V21 comes only with 1x 200mm 800 RPM front intake fan and that alone isn't sufficient to cool the PC. You'll need at least 2 fans at minimum, one intake, another exhaust. Since there's a lot of customization options with fans in Core V21, the fan setup and orientation all depends on how you set your build up.
    You can put up to 13 fans into Core V21 if you like:

    Since hot air rises, case airflow rule of thumb is: front & bottom - intake; top & rear - exhaust. But since Core V21 has great fan support, you can also go with left to right or right to left airflow.

    Few examples how i'd set up the airflow inside the Core V21. Oh, i always use 140mm fans when i can in place of 120mm fans since 140mm fans move more air and are quieter than 120mm fans.

    When window on top and MoBo tray horizontally, then:
    1x 200mm front intake (stock fan)
    2x 140mm left intake
    2x 140mm right exhaust
    1x 140mm rear exhaust
    Main airflow is from left to right. You can set the airflow from right to left if you like.

    When window on the right and MoBo tray horizontally for inverted design, then:
    1x 200mm front intake (stock fan)
    2x 120mm bottom intake
    2x 140mm top exhaust
    1x 140mm rear exhaust
    Main airflow is from front and bottom to top and rear. I'd use the same setup of fans when the window would be on the left side for standard design.

    I'd leave the 200mm fan in place since it does move quite a lot of air and even at it's max RPM of 800, it's very quiet by only producing 13 dB(A).

    In your PM to me, you stated that Core V21 has noise issues. The thing with PC cases is that it isn't the case that makes the noise but instead the case fans you put into there.
    If i were to take a "quiet" case like Corsair 400Q and put a Noctua NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM fan into it which outputs 43.5 dB(A), then you can be certain that the PC won't be quiet at all, despite the claims it being quiet.

    The more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce. And that is also a main reason why i have 7 case fans in my Skylake and Haswell build's. All my fans are spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are quiet while still having proper airflow inside them.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Lastly, I'm still leaning toward Ryzen 1600x if I'm only going i5, especially because my monitor is 60hz, so maxing FPS isn't really going to be helping. If I were to consider an i7, then I don't think the Ryzen 7 competes as well. However, the new intel CPUs are about to get released, that might change prices or something. I still have some time to pull the trigger as it will ultimately be a christmas gift.

    As long as there is demand for Kaby Lake and Ryzen CPUs, the prices won't drop even if Intel comes out with Cannonlake family CPUs.

    Refined my last Intel build to the Ryzen 5 build:

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($299.50 @ shopRBC)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer 33 CPU Cooler ($68.13 @ Amazon Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350M MORTAR Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ PC Canada)
    Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($152.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($79.50 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($111.95 @ Vuugo)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.93 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.93 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.93 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - F12 PWM 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.50 @ Vuugo)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - F12 PWM 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.50 @ Vuugo)
    Monitor: LG - 24M45VQ 23.6" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
    Total: $1152.78
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-12 14:04 EDT-0400

    Few words

    I changed the RAM from 3000 Mhz to 2666 Mhz because all Ryzen CPUs have issues running RAM faster than their native 2133/2400/2666 Mhz. Some RAMs do work with 3000/3200 Mhz while others don't no matter what you do. It's because AMD didn't add faster RAM support to their firmware once they released Ryzen CPUs. Now, they gradually update the firmware and some RAMs do work in 3000/3200 Mhz but not all of them. Since i don't know which ones do and which ones don't, i won't risk it with 3000 Mhz RAM. 2666 Mhz RAM is also $20 CAD cheaper.

    I also added 2x 120mm and 3x 140mm fans to the build. While Arctic fans don't have LEDs for eyecandy, they do have fluid dynamic bearing with good airflow and quiet operation. I had Arctic F12 PWM fans in use in my Skylake and AMD builds prior to upgrading my fans into LED fans for more eyecandy.
    Also, since i don't know what kind of color theme you want, i won't add LED fans into the build for time being.
    Reply to Aeacus
  34. Oops!
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/7PXZpb

    Also, this ram should actually work at 3200
    Reply to blankcr8
  35. Aeacus said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    Ok so now I am essentially just saving the monitor from the existing computer, but that still ends up saving me a bit of cash. Would the Seasonic M12II-620 EVO still be good for a future GPU purchase? I don't want to have to buy a new PSU at that time.

    As i already said above, Seasonic M12II EVO series is good build quality PSU and it has enough wattage to power even the best gaming GPU.

    JonnyGuru reviewed the M12II-850 EVO and you can be sure that M12II-620 EVO has the same qualities, it just has lower wattage output,
    link: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=356

    rob.salewytsch said:
    I have a question about that AOC monitor too. It appears to have FreeSync, but I am going to have NVIDIA GPU, so FreeSync is not usable am I right? So when I go buy a new monitor, I'll want GSync if anything.

    Yes, it is a Freesync monitor and no, you can't use Freesync if you have Nvidia GPU. Only Radeon GPUs support Freesync.

    The downside about G-Sync monitors is that they cost much more since monitor manufacturers have to pay considerable royalties to Nvidia if the add G-Sync feature to the monitor. There's small royalty tax on Freesync and it's far cheaper to add it to the monitor than adding G-Sync. That's why Freesync monitors are far cheaper than G-Sync monitors.

    Here's a good example between two best budget gaming monitors: both are 24", 1080p, 144 Hz, TN panel, 1ms response time but AOC has Freesync while Acer has G-Sync,
    pcpp: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/ZBZ2FT,4cbkcf/

    You don't have to enable Freesync when using a monitor that has it. You can just use the native V-Sync that is supported by all GPUs and is usually found within game settings.

    Here's further reading about Freesync and G-Sync,
    link: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2974781/displays/g-sync-vs-freesync-faq-how-variable-refresh-rate-displays-make-pc-games-super-smooth.html

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Do you think I require any other fans for my thermaltake v21?

    Core V21 comes only with 1x 200mm 800 RPM front intake fan and that alone isn't sufficient to cool the PC. You'll need at least 2 fans at minimum, one intake, another exhaust. Since there's a lot of customization options with fans in Core V21, the fan setup and orientation all depends on how you set your build up.
    You can put up to 13 fans into Core V21 if you like:

    Since hot air rises, case airflow rule of thumb is: front & bottom - intake; top & rear - exhaust. But since Core V21 has great fan support, you can also go with left to right or right to left airflow.

    Few examples how i'd set up the airflow inside the Core V21. Oh, i always use 140mm fans when i can in place of 120mm fans since 140mm fans move more air and are quieter than 120mm fans.

    When window on top and MoBo tray horizontally, then:
    1x 200mm front intake (stock fan)
    2x 140mm left intake
    2x 140mm right exhaust
    1x 140mm rear exhaust
    Main airflow is from left to right. You can set the airflow from right to left if you like.

    When window on the right and MoBo tray horizontally for inverted design, then:
    1x 200mm front intake (stock fan)
    2x 120mm bottom intake
    2x 140mm top exhaust
    1x 140mm rear exhaust
    Main airflow is from front and bottom to top and rear. I'd use the same setup of fans when the window would be on the left side for standard design.

    I'd leave the 200mm fan in place since it does move quite a lot of air and even at it's max RPM of 800, it's very quiet by only producing 13 dB(A).

    In your PM to me, you stated that Core V21 has noise issues. The thing with PC cases is that it isn't the case that makes the noise but instead the case fans you put into there.
    If i were to take a "quiet" case like Corsair 400Q and put a Noctua NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM fan into it which outputs 43.5 dB(A), then you can be certain that the PC won't be quiet at all, despite the claims it being quiet.

    The more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce. And that is also a main reason why i have 7 case fans in my Skylake and Haswell build's. All my fans are spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are quiet while still having proper airflow inside them.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Lastly, I'm still leaning toward Ryzen 1600x if I'm only going i5, especially because my monitor is 60hz, so maxing FPS isn't really going to be helping. If I were to consider an i7, then I don't think the Ryzen 7 competes as well. However, the new intel CPUs are about to get released, that might change prices or something. I still have some time to pull the trigger as it will ultimately be a christmas gift.

    As long as there is demand for Kaby Lake and Ryzen CPUs, the prices won't drop even if Intel comes out with Cannonlake family CPUs.

    Refined my last Intel build to the Ryzen 5 build:

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor ($299.50 @ shopRBC)
    CPU Cooler: ARCTIC - Freezer 33 CPU Cooler ($68.13 @ Amazon Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350M MORTAR Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ PC Canada)
    Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws 4 Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($152.99 @ Memory Express)
    Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($79.50 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($111.95 @ Vuugo)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.93 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.93 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.93 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - F12 PWM 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.50 @ Vuugo)
    Case Fan: ARCTIC - F12 PWM 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.50 @ Vuugo)
    Monitor: LG - 24M45VQ 23.6" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
    Total: $1152.78
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-12 14:04 EDT-0400

    Few words

    I changed the RAM from 3000 Mhz to 2666 Mhz because all Ryzen CPUs have issues running RAM faster than their native 2133/2400/2666 Mhz. Some RAMs do work with 3000/3200 Mhz while others don't no matter what you do. It's because AMD didn't add faster RAM support to their firmware once they released Ryzen CPUs. Now, they gradually update the firmware and some RAMs do work in 3000/3200 Mhz but not all of them. Since i don't know which ones do and which ones don't, i won't risk it with 3000 Mhz RAM. 2666 Mhz RAM is also $20 CAD cheaper.

    I also added 2x 120mm and 3x 140mm fans to the build. While Arctic fans don't have LEDs for eyecandy, they do have fluid dynamic bearing with good airflow and quiet operation. I had Arctic F12 PWM fans in use in my Skylake and AMD builds prior to upgrading my fans into LED fans for more eyecandy.
    Also, since i don't know what kind of color theme you want, i won't add LED fans into the build for time being.


    Really appreciate the fan guidance. Since the arctic doesn't have RGB, would you recommend just buying a strip or LED's?

    As far as RAM, I watched a great video that talked about finding Ryzen appropriate RAM supported by the MOBO. Basically it says to check the qualified vendor list for my MOBO (or choose a MOBO based on what my RAM maker has for its QVL.)

    Lastly, I am really stuck on a case. I do like the fact that the V21 will let me have a right side window, but I also really like the Phanteks P40S TGE bc it comes with some (really basic) RGB and gets great reviews for basically the same price. Yes I realize changing cases screws up all the changes you made to the MOBO. I honestly get analysis paralysis in trying to decide sometimes.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  36. blankcr8 said:
    Oops!
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/7PXZpb

    Also, this ram should actually work at 3200


    Are these fans Dynamic Fluid Bearing or Sleeve Bearing? I wasn't able to find the answer.

    I'm not sure if the $63 up charge on the RAM is worthwhile, but I did do some reading about how to find RAM and MOBO combinations that work with RYzen at 3000 or 3200.

    The intel vs Ryzen war in my mind is ridiculous. I mostly game, so that makes me think intel, but there is something about Ryzen (marketing probably) that has me hooked. It's probably my belief (however misguided) that Ryzen will future proof better overall due to the increased cores/threads.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  37. The bearings are called"high performance low noise" but I can't seem to find what they are exactly either. The price is a little high for the 3200mhz, you could go for 3000 or 2666, you'll just lose a little bit of performance. The ryzen does have the potential to be more future proof because it does have more raw power than the i5, but it depends on how game optimization goes over the next few years.
    Reply to blankcr8
  38. rob.salewytsch said:
    Really appreciate the fan guidance. Since the arctic doesn't have RGB, would you recommend just buying a strip or LED's?

    You have few choices how to set up the eyecandy inside your PC:
    1. non-LED fan + LED strip
    2. LED fan + LED strip
    3. LED RGB fan + LED strip

    Here's further reading about best LED strips around the block,
    link: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-rgb-led-lighting-kit/

    The cheapest would be non-LED fan with non-addressable LED strip. But it doesn't provide much eyecandy either. Best eyecandy (and probably the most expensive) would be with LED RGB fan with addressable LED strip, e.g NZXT HUE+ with NZXT AER RGB fans.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    As far as RAM, I watched a great video that talked about finding Ryzen appropriate RAM supported by the MOBO. Basically it says to check the qualified vendor list for my MOBO (or choose a MOBO based on what my RAM maker has for its QVL.)

    Yes, you can check MoBo's memory QVL to make sure if the selected RAM actually works with your MoBo at the RAM's rated speeds. No point to switch out MoBo to match specific RAM since it takes way too long to search that specific RAM from each possible MoBo's memory QVL.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Lastly, I am really stuck on a case. I do like the fact that the V21 will let me have a right side window, but I also really like the Phanteks P40S TGE bc it comes with some (really basic) RGB and gets great reviews for basically the same price. Yes I realize changing cases screws up all the changes you made to the MOBO. I honestly get analysis paralysis in trying to decide sometimes.

    The easiest thing to do would be deciding if you want to go with inverted design or not.

    Personally, i'd go with a case which enables me to set it up several different ways. For example, with Core V21, you can have inverted design or if you get tired seeing that, just put the window at the other side (or at the top). Also, it's easy to add LED strips for eyecandy when case doesn't come with one (most cases don't).

    Don't pick a case just because it has few non-addressable LED strips. But if tempered glass side panel is a big factor for you, then there are quite a few to choose from. Though, only case that i know of that has TG side panel and ability for inverted design is the Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 900.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Are these fans Dynamic Fluid Bearing or Sleeve Bearing? I wasn't able to find the answer.

    The Cryorig's "high performance low noise" bearing is just a fancy name to regular sleeve bearing. Cryorig probably uses that fancy name to deceive customers, so they think they get something better than they actually get.

    Proof: http://www.cryorig.com/news.php?id=12
    Read under "Acoustic Optimizations" section.
    Reply to Aeacus
  39. Aeacus said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    Really appreciate the fan guidance. Since the arctic doesn't have RGB, would you recommend just buying a strip or LED's?

    You have few choices how to set up the eyecandy inside your PC:
    1. non-LED fan + LED strip
    2. LED fan + LED strip
    3. LED RGB fan + LED strip

    Here's further reading about best LED strips around the block,
    link: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-rgb-led-lighting-kit/

    The cheapest would be non-LED fan with non-addressable LED strip. But it doesn't provide much eyecandy either. Best eyecandy (and probably the most expensive) would be with LED RGB fan with addressable LED strip, e.g NZXT HUE+ with NZXT AER RGB fans.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    As far as RAM, I watched a great video that talked about finding Ryzen appropriate RAM supported by the MOBO. Basically it says to check the qualified vendor list for my MOBO (or choose a MOBO based on what my RAM maker has for its QVL.)

    Yes, you can check MoBo's memory QVL to make sure if the selected RAM actually works with your MoBo at the RAM's rated speeds. No point to switch out MoBo to match specific RAM since it takes way too long to search that specific RAM from each possible MoBo's memory QVL.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Lastly, I am really stuck on a case. I do like the fact that the V21 will let me have a right side window, but I also really like the Phanteks P40S TGE bc it comes with some (really basic) RGB and gets great reviews for basically the same price. Yes I realize changing cases screws up all the changes you made to the MOBO. I honestly get analysis paralysis in trying to decide sometimes.

    The easiest thing to do would be deciding if you want to go with inverted design or not.

    Personally, i'd go with a case which enables me to set it up several different ways. For example, with Core V21, you can have inverted design or if you get tired seeing that, just put the window at the other side (or at the top). Also, it's easy to add LED strips for eyecandy when case doesn't come with one (most cases don't).

    Don't pick a case just because it has few non-addressable LED strips. But if tempered glass side panel is a big factor for you, then there are quite a few to choose from. Though, only case that i know of that has TG side panel and ability for inverted design is the Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 900.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Are these fans Dynamic Fluid Bearing or Sleeve Bearing? I wasn't able to find the answer.

    The Cryorig's "high performance low noise" bearing is just a fancy name to regular sleeve bearing. Cryorig probably uses that fancy name to deceive customers, so they think they get something better than they actually get.

    Proof: http://www.cryorig.com/news.php?id=12
    Read under "Acoustic Optimizations" section.


    So here's the problem, if I decide to not go inverted design, then my window faces away from me, and then what do i need RGB for? That is why the Phanteks was appealing (besides constantly being reviewed as amazing at its price point) because it has some front RGB that offers some control, although non-addressable.

    The V21 has an acrylic window which I read is really terrible and scratches easily (like all Acrylic).
    After reading about acrylic cases, I am unsure that I want the Core V21. I like the fact that it has the inverted design and it's a fair price. But these two cases have caught my eye with .

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Y6Crxr/fractal-design-meshify-c-atx-mid-tower-case-fd-ca-mesh-c-bko-tg

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/tBWrxr/phanteks-eclipse-p400s-tempered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec416pstg_bk

    I can't justify over $200 for a case that has both the inverted design and TG. Maybe I need to see about trying to find a way to reorient my setup. (although I don't see how it's possible). So, I guess I just need to think on it a bit more.

    I will definitely skip the CryOrig.

    Someone else pointed out some case fans to me and I wanted to get your thoughts bc it has LED and is BOL (which I assume is at least better than sleeve bearing but maybe not better than fluid dynamic?). I guess one downside is that these are blue leds, although they have red.
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/6DrG3C/lepa-case-fan-lpbol12pbl

    Either way, lets add a DeepCool RGB350 to the build: Yes its cheap and non-addressable, but I am going from no lights to this, so it will be a marked improvement.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  40. Aeacus said:
    rob.salewytsch said:
    Really appreciate the fan guidance. Since the arctic doesn't have RGB, would you recommend just buying a strip or LED's?

    You have few choices how to set up the eyecandy inside your PC:
    1. non-LED fan + LED strip
    2. LED fan + LED strip
    3. LED RGB fan + LED strip

    Here's further reading about best LED strips around the block,
    link: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-rgb-led-lighting-kit/

    The cheapest would be non-LED fan with non-addressable LED strip. But it doesn't provide much eyecandy either. Best eyecandy (and probably the most expensive) would be with LED RGB fan with addressable LED strip, e.g NZXT HUE+ with NZXT AER RGB fans.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    As far as RAM, I watched a great video that talked about finding Ryzen appropriate RAM supported by the MOBO. Basically it says to check the qualified vendor list for my MOBO (or choose a MOBO based on what my RAM maker has for its QVL.)

    Yes, you can check MoBo's memory QVL to make sure if the selected RAM actually works with your MoBo at the RAM's rated speeds. No point to switch out MoBo to match specific RAM since it takes way too long to search that specific RAM from each possible MoBo's memory QVL.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Lastly, I am really stuck on a case. I do like the fact that the V21 will let me have a right side window, but I also really like the Phanteks P40S TGE bc it comes with some (really basic) RGB and gets great reviews for basically the same price. Yes I realize changing cases screws up all the changes you made to the MOBO. I honestly get analysis paralysis in trying to decide sometimes.

    The easiest thing to do would be deciding if you want to go with inverted design or not.

    Personally, i'd go with a case which enables me to set it up several different ways. For example, with Core V21, you can have inverted design or if you get tired seeing that, just put the window at the other side (or at the top). Also, it's easy to add LED strips for eyecandy when case doesn't come with one (most cases don't).

    Don't pick a case just because it has few non-addressable LED strips. But if tempered glass side panel is a big factor for you, then there are quite a few to choose from. Though, only case that i know of that has TG side panel and ability for inverted design is the Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 900.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Are these fans Dynamic Fluid Bearing or Sleeve Bearing? I wasn't able to find the answer.

    The Cryorig's "high performance low noise" bearing is just a fancy name to regular sleeve bearing. Cryorig probably uses that fancy name to deceive customers, so they think they get something better than they actually get.

    Proof: http://www.cryorig.com/news.php?id=12
    Read under "Acoustic Optimizations" section.


    So here's the problem, if I decide to not go inverted design, then my window faces away from me, and then what do i need RGB for? That is why the Phanteks was appealing (besides constantly being reviewed as amazing at its price point) because it has some front RGB that offers some control, although non-addressable.

    The V21 has an acrylic window which I read is really terrible and scratches easily (like all Acrylic).
    After reading about acrylic cases, I am unsure that I want the Core V21. I like the fact that it has the inverted design and it's a fair price. But these three cases have caught my eye with .

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Y6Crxr/fractal-design-meshify-c-atx-mid-tower-case-fd-ca-mesh-c-bko-tg

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/tBWrxr/phanteks-eclipse-p400s-tempered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec416pstg_bk

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/WMbkcf/inwin-303-black-atx-mid-tower-case-303-black

    I can't justify over $200 for a case that has both the inverted design and TG. Maybe I need to see about trying to find a way to reorient my setup. (although I don't see how it's possible). So, I guess I just need to think on it a bit more.

    I will definitely skip the CryOrig.

    Someone else pointed out some case fans to me and I wanted to get your thoughts bc it has LED and is BOL (which I assume is at least better than sleeve bearing but maybe not better than fluid dynamic?). I guess one downside is that these are blue leds, although they have red.
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/6DrG3C/lepa-case-fan-lpbol12pbl

    Either way, lets add a DeepCool RGB350 to the build: Yes its cheap and non-addressable, but I am going from no lights to this, so it will be a marked improvement.

    Also, what can you tell me about SSDs? I read something about m2 vs 2.5 or something and one of them being 4x as fast?

    Lastly, I know I landed on the R5 1600x, but now i'm reading a lot that says the 'x' variant is a waste of money. Many reviewTubers are even saying a decent OC can be had with the wraith spire cooler (although i'm not convinced of that and would get the aftermarket one anyway). But they are saying the 15% price upgrade is only worth about 2% performance. Have you seen similar?
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  41. If you can deal with the window being on the wrong side, here's a case that comes with 2 rgb fans, an rgb led strip on the front panel and some rgb inside the window
    https://m.newegg.ca/products/N82E16811517045?Keyword=Azza%20310 can be had for $85 right now, $40 off original price. I think it came out this week, so there's only 1 review of it that I can find anywhere
    Reply to blankcr8
  42. blankcr8 said:
    If you can deal with the window being on the wrong side, here's a case that comes with 2 rgb fans, an rgb led strip on the front panel and some rgb inside the window
    https://m.newegg.ca/products/N82E16811517045?Keyword=Azza%20310 can be had for $85 right now, $40 off original price. I think it came out this week, so there's only 1 review of it that I can find anywhere


    Honestly, my first thought was eww...then I took a second look and the fact that there is a front rgb strip is nice. It also includes RGB fans for the front. I guess the big question is how good are those fans?

    update: looks like the fans are meh (if amazon reviews can be trusted)
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  43. Its also got a rear exhaust fan, so airflow shouldn't be too bad.
    Reply to blankcr8
  44. Ummm... Is this not a great deal?

    https://m.newegg.ca/products/N82E16820147593
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  45. That's a great deal! Faster than the regular 2.5" SSDs for $40 less
    Reply to blankcr8
  46. rob.salewytsch said:
    So here's the problem, if I decide to not go inverted design, then my window faces away from me, and then what do i need RGB for? That is why the Phanteks was appealing (besides constantly being reviewed as amazing at its price point) because it has some front RGB that offers some control, although non-addressable.

    The V21 has an acrylic window which I read is really terrible and scratches easily (like all Acrylic).
    After reading about acrylic cases, I am unsure that I want the Core V21. I like the fact that it has the inverted design and it's a fair price. But these three cases have caught my eye with .

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Y6Crxr/fractal-design-meshify-c-atx-mid-tower-case-fd-ca-mesh-c-bko-tg

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/tBWrxr/phanteks-eclipse-p400s-tempered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec416pstg_bk

    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/WMbkcf/inwin-303-black-atx-mid-tower-case-303-black

    While acrylic can easily scratch, if you take care of it, it won't scratch. I got 2x cases with acrylic windows and i don't have any scratches on them.

    Oh, the Azza Inferno 310 RGB fans have fluid dynamic bearing with mediocre airflow and static pressure with 800 - 1800 RPM range,
    case specs: http://www.azzatek.com/m/2010-1307-166099.php?Lang=en
    case fan specs: http://www.azzatek.com/m/2010-1307-159058.php?Lang=en

    I'll also compose new, updated build below with your latest preferences.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Someone else pointed out some case fans to me and I wanted to get your thoughts bc it has LED and is BOL (which I assume is at least better than sleeve bearing but maybe not better than fluid dynamic?). I guess one downside is that these are blue leds, although they have red.
    https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/6DrG3C/lepa-case-fan-lpbol12pbl

    Lepa BOL bearing is a variation of magnetic levitation bearing.
    Further reading: https://us.hardware.info/reviews/5770/3/103-12cm-case-fans-review-bearings
    (read the 5th chapter)

    Lepa 120mm BOL.Quiet PWM LED fans have good airflow with mediocre static pressure and low noise,
    fan specs: http://www.lepatek.eu/bolquiet-pwm/

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Also, what can you tell me about SSDs? I read something about m2 vs 2.5 or something and one of them being 4x as fast?

    As far as storage goes, you need to decide if you want more storage space or faster read/write speeds.
    If you want lots of storage space then HDDs are best since they have the lowest price per GB. Though, they also have the lowest read/write speeds.
    But if you want great read/write speeds then M.2 NVMe SSDs are the best since they are the fastest. Though, they also have the highest price per GB.
    2.5" SSDs are in the middle of the two. While being much faster than regular HDDs, their price per GB isn't as high as with M.2 SSDs. That's why they are most commonly uses as OS drives while HDDs are kept as storage drives.

    SSD's can have one of two protocols for operation, either ACHI or NVMe. ACHI is older tech and mostly the connection used is SATA (e.g Samsung 850 Evo). While NVMe is much never tech and it uses M.2 connector (e.g Samsung 960 Pro). Though, there are also ACHI SSDs that connect to the M.2 slot (e.g Crucial MX200).

    Samsung 850 Evo vs Samsung 960 Evo comparison,
    link: http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Samsung-850-Evo-250GB-vs-Samsung-960-Evo-NVMe-PCIe-M2-250GB/2977vsm200373

    While M.2 NVMe SSD is much faster than 2.5" SATA SSD or M.2 ACHI SSD, in real world, you can't tell a difference between the two when small files are read/written. But you can tell a difference when big files are read/written. Another, smaller benefit with M.2 SSD (NVMe or ACHI) is that it mounts directly to your MoBo and doesn't take up 2.5" drive bay. You also don't need to connect SATA data and power cable to it, thus reducing cable clutter a bit.

    rob.salewytsch said:
    Lastly, I know I landed on the R5 1600x, but now i'm reading a lot that says the 'x' variant is a waste of money. Many reviewTubers are even saying a decent OC can be had with the wraith spire cooler (although i'm not convinced of that and would get the aftermarket one anyway). But they are saying the 15% price upgrade is only worth about 2% performance. Have you seen similar?

    Ryzen 5 1600 and 1600X CPUs have the same OC max limit and if you OC your CPU, there's more value in 1600 than in 1600X. Though, Ryzen 5 1600X has only a bit higher base and boost clocks compared to the 1600,
    comparison: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/3919vs3920

    Refined my last Ryzen 5 1600X build with the latest info. (color theme: black & red)

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.50 @ Vuugo)
    CPU Cooler: MSI - CORE FROZR L 71.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($63.35 @ Amazon Canada)
    Motherboard: MSI - B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard ($126.05 @ DirectCanada)
    Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($199.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($159.95 @ Vuugo)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($54.99 @ Memory Express)
    Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
    Case: Azza - Inferno 310 ($124.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($114.50 @ Vuugo)
    Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM 120mm Fan ($17.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM 120mm Fan ($17.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Case Fan: LEPA - LP-BOL12P-R 81.5 CFM 120mm Fan ($17.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Monitor: LG - 24M45VQ 23.6" 1920x1080 60Hz Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
    Total: $1247.28
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-17 19:45 EDT-0400

    Changes made
    CPU: Ryzen 5 1600X -> Ryzen 5 1600
    CPU cooler: Arctic Freezer 33 -> MSI Core Frozr L
    MoBo: MSI B350M Mortar (micro ATX) -> MSI B350 Tomahawk (ATX)
    RAM: G.Skill 16GB 2666 Mhz -> Corsair 16GB 3200 Mhz
    SSD: Samsung 850 Evo -> Samsung 960 Evo
    Case: Thermaltake Core V21 -> Azza Inferno 310
    Case fans: Arctic F12/F14 -> Lepa BOL.Quiet red LED

    Reasons why
    CPU
    Better value with 1600 than 1600X with same level of max OC.

    CPU cooler
    To match the black & red theme perfectly, i replaced the CPU cooler too. MSI Torx fan has hydro-dynamic bearing (a variation of fluid dynamic bearing),
    specs: https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/CORE-FROZR-L.html
    review: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8033/msi-core-frozr-cpu-cooler-review/index.html

    MoBo
    ATX MoBo fits better in mid-tower ATX case than micro ATX MoBo. So, replaced MoBo with bigger one. MoBo also has red LEDs for eyecandy,
    specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B350-TOMAHAWK/Overview

    RAM
    Put in 3200 Mhz RAM that works at 3200 Mhz according to the MoBo's memory QVL. RAM has red heatsinks to match the black & red theme. You can go with black heatsinks too if you like it more that way.

    SSD
    I replaced the Samsung 850 Evo with the Samsung 960 Evo due to the sale on newegg.

    Case
    Put in Azza Inferno 310 case that appealed to you. On the Azza Inferno 310 specs page, there's even a pic with MSI Core Froz L as being a CPU cooler in there. Oh, i added the default price of the Azza case in the pcpp list since at the time when i wrote my reply, the newegg sale lasted only 6 hours more.

    Case fans
    Removed Arctic F12/F14 non-LED fans and added 3x 120mm Lepa BOL bearing red LED fans that you can mount as top exhausts.
    Reply to Aeacus
  47. Round and round in circles.

    A few points.

    Watched two vids on Ram. One showed minimal performance increase when going from 8 to 16 GB and the other showed like 1% difference on any ram above 24##-26## Ram. Have anything to refute the idea that I could get 8GB of 24## Mhz and be more than fin?

    Also am i missing something, or does this seem pretty good.

    https://m.newegg.ca/combo/combodetail?comboId=3625188&comboType=2
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
  48. rob.salewytsch said:
    Round and round in circles.

    A few points.

    Watched two vids on Ram. One showed minimal performance increase when going from 8 to 16 GB and the other showed like 1% difference on any ram above 24##-26## Ram. Have anything to refute the idea that I could get 8GB of 24## Mhz and be more than fin?

    Also am i missing something, or does this seem pretty good.

    https://m.newegg.ca/combo/combodetail?comboId=3625188&comboType=2


    Currently all you need is 8gb, but in a few years that could change, and it'll just be nicer in the long run. You could opt to go for only 8gb and it would be fine, but I'd recommend 16gb. For the speed were they comparing with intel chips or ryzen?

    The build you have is pretty good, although the SuperNova G1 isnt nearly as good as the G2/G3
    Reply to blankcr8
  49. oops....try this.

    This build gets me a 1070ti to max my graphics at 1080p @ 144 for years to come, but has noticeable cuts in other areas. Is this better than keeping my 960 and using my 1080p @ 144 hz? Especially considering the significant price change?

    I could also go with a FD Focus G to save another 20 and hope i can get a WD blue in the family xmas exchange lol. This keeps me under the $2000 budget. (Yes $2000, $1600 was the budget before it was determined that new monitor was needed).

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor (Purchased For $234.99)
    Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($84.50 @ Vuugo)
    Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($209.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Storage: Crucial - BX300 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($79.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($54.95 @ Vuugo)
    Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB Mini Video Card ($579.99 @ Newegg Canada)
    Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($79.50 @ Vuugo)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic - EVO Edition 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $79.99)
    Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($50.00)
    Monitor: AOC - G2770PQU 27.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor ($349.99 @ Amazon Canada)
    Total: $1803.89
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-12 00:52 EST-0500

    EDIT: I could even go with the EVGA 1070Ti and come under budget.
    Reply to rob.salewytsch
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